Warning! This advice could result in death or serious injury, or worse!
@MrMechanic
There are some points you don't seem to be considering in your reckless endangerment of the public.
So somebody steals your car, and as he is driving down the road your defense system kicks and it
plows into my wife and kids and kills them.
And the next thing you know, you either find yourself at the wrong end of his shotgun, or, maybe worse, the wrong end of his lawyer for a Wrongful Death lawsuit and maybe a criminal murder/manslaughter charge as well.
And granted, maybe the roads are back country roads with
nothing but trees on the shoulder.
well, except for the work crews and little old ladies with flat tires or maybe the local sheriff chatting with a speeder, nothing you need to worry about! Oh ya, and I have been on many wrecks were the person ran off the road, hit the bank or a tree and got knocked back into oncoming traffic.
I remember this one where a guy in an F350 towing a boat was driving toward a school bus... Oh, no gory stories here.
Basic law that applies in all states: If you modify anything from it's Factory condition without approval, not only are you breaking the law, you are criminally and civilly responsible for any harm it may cause. This law isn't often used because usually they are citing for specific infractions so you don't hear about it much, but they use it when needed. I have heard it most often used with Smog control issues, but man oh man, you mess with safety equipment.... There are racing supply companies that quit making steering and brake parts for any roadworthy vehicles because they were too likely to be included in lawsuits just because they hadn't gone through the crash testing that Factory stuff had. It sucked too because they made some great Jeep parts!
I know you are an Expert on the law, and an Expert Mechanic, so I can't claim to know better than you, but I would seem to think there would be a pretty good case against you for tampering with Federally regulated Safety Systems with Intent to cause Bodily Harm. Heck, even the thief would probably win if he sued you!
And don't even get me started on your friend with the Improvised Explosive Device rigged with Intent to kill. That would just be a straight murder charge, well, plus the ATF and FBI would be all over it, being a bomb/home made firearm. It sounds cool, and makes those of us that have had stuff stolen chuckle and ponder, but with most of us, logic kicks in before we start plotting how to kill people and endanger others. Oh, what happens when he gets injured and is in the ICU in a coma and his truck gets towed and ends up going to auction and the mechanic goes to replace the ignition switch and gets his head blown off? How many other scenarios could see it leaving his control?
Some Jeeper friends of mine down in the San Diego area had some really nicely set up rock crawler rigs (think $30-40K+ invested in upgrade parts, and they did the work themselves). They would often run down into Mexico to go wheeling, and then stop in some little town watering hole. They would park all the rigs down the middle of the street and then sit outside and tell tall stories. Well, one guy would park off to one side and leave his keys in the ignition. After a while, they would see somebody sneak up to it, hop in, fire it up and go racing down the street. About the time it got to where they were, it would stop, and the person would jump and run, everybody would laugh, he would weave back to his jeep, flip the hidden electric fuel pump cutoff switch, drive it back to where it had been and wait for the next victim to try for it!
You want to mess with the thief and not risk murdering someone?
Make it so once they hit 25, it locks the tranny in 1st gear and cuts as many injectors as possible while allowing the engine to continue running. (killing the engine at speed makes you lose steering and brakes with you assuming full liability for any accidents caused as a result) Oh, and lock the horn on, leave power on to door locking motors, windows disabled, and flash the light while you are at it.
Ya, no wrecks or anything fun, but they can't get very far like that.
Or, the simple and safe method: Make it so it can't be started/driven in the first place! Shift linkage disconnect/lock preventing it from shifting out of park? Pin/lock preventing the parking brake from being released? (Could be built into the axle if you were worried about them cutting the cable)
Power disconnect to the ECU? Electric Fuel Pump switch? Solenoid valve in the fuel line?
It sounds like you are a better mechanic than I am, so I am sure you can come up with much better ideas that won't endanger DirtHauler's kids.
an Officer can't legally tell someone what they should/should not do. And may not impose, express, recommend, or hint to any course of action that could influence a "victims" decisions in anyway.
Why? Because they are NOT lawyers.
<snip>
Any failing on the PDs end, can cost a LEO his badge. Failing to follow proper/federal procedure of law.
<snip>
Just learned this stuff snooping around the Internet today, and thought a lot of you gents may want to know the info for future purposes. (Hopefully not)
OH and another thing about Law Enforcement, since a Police Officer is not a Lawyer, they cannot tell someone they should let someone else go etc. It's the "victims" choice to press chargers or not. And it's the Police Officers job to follow instructions. Police officers are not allowed to provide Legal Counsel in anyway, because it's practicing law without a license to do so. Which, in turn, can cost a LEO his/her badge. Regardless of the incident.
As you have more recent Legal training than I do (I haven't studied anything today!
, I will have to accept your legal advice, but I do have a few questions. (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night)
In my training a LEO is supposed to tell people what to do. If they are investigating a report of a crime, they have to look at the evidence and decide what the best course of action is, and then advise the parties of the course they have chosen. They then report to their superiors as required by their policies, and if the matter is serious enough, it gets passed to the DA who then decided whether to press charges. With some cases the DA can't do anything unless the victim decides to press charges, and in other cases the DA can press charges regardless of the victims wishes. The victims wishes do sometimes affect what the officer does in the short term, but it is their job to advise the victim on what they recommend! It's not Legal Advice unless they get into the part that the DA takes care of.
In the case of the stolen bobcat, I think the advice to just drop it may have been the best course. If they got insurance for the machine and then recovered the machine, they would have to pay the money back, would be getting a possibly abused machine back and their rates would still be higher. If the person found with it wasn't the one that stole it, what would be the point making life bad for them? If they had bought it, they would be losing their investment, and it would be as bad for them as if it had been stolen! Plus you have all the public costs of police time and courts.
Since most LEO's follow department policy and training, most that provide advice would be doing what they were trained, and at most would get some retraining and a slap on the wrist. You look at how hard it is for the really bad ones to lose their badge with U**** contracts and such, I don't think somebody is gonna lose it because they tried to do their job and solve a problem.
Oh ya, I was gonna ask questions...
Where is your Lawyer License? You seem to be dishing out a lot of legal advice!
Have you talked to any LEO's or Lawyers about your findings on LEO's not being allowed to tell people what to do?
Have you dealt with a LEO as if they were supposed to follow your instructions?
How did that work out for you? :Banghead
After I follow your advice, how do I get a hold of you? Well, I guess I should ask how my lawyer should get a hold of you, because I won't have too many phone calls allowed!
My rule when I am hauling Big Heavy Stuff (or anything else potentially hazardous) is to consider the possible ways what I am loading could end up on top of a minivan full of kids, and plan a way to prevent that from happening.
Most of the people on this forum are very safety conscious, and I would have no fear working in a trench or under a load with them at the controls.
I am amazed that this has not been protested more than it has!
Any of you that haul wide loads, do road work, good operators, etc, know that it is your responsibility to look out for the safety of everybody else because you are doing something inherently dangerous. Some people just don't get that I guess!
Can ya tell this hit a button?
Sorry about the long post folks, but I wanted to explain things clearly enough for all to understand, and I have never been accused of being too quiet.
MrMechanic, I did note that you have begun rethinking the safety issues, so if your thinking has changed to agree with mine, don't take it personally!
A thought for you to remember, most of the stuff on the InterWebs is wrong, either from error or omission. What you may have found could apply in one town or state and not others, or could be old, or most likely is somebody quoting a source such as this thread... Also, the text in some book somewhere may not agree with the way things work in the real world, either due to poor legal systems, or because case law interprets it differently than you might see it. There are a lot of rights that will end you in jail if you try to exercise them because you may be more familiar with them the the LEO just trying to do his job.
:my2c :my2c
Ben~