Deere and Hitachi? Whats going on?

[Pusskinz]

Ok so, i know that Deere uses Hitachi excavators, but what are the ins and outs of the whole thing? Who makes what? Does Hitachi make Deere's compact exvavators or does Yanmar do that now? Are all the mid-sized excavators made by Hitachi? Exactly what parts are Hitachi and whats Deere. I know Deere uses some of there own engines but what else? Hydraulics? And lastly what about the large excavators, i know that the Deere 470G, 670G, and 870G all use Isuzu engines, and so does Hitachi, yet in each comparable model, there is different models of Isuzu engines (i believe). Why arent they the same? Does anybody have any opinions on which brand is better? Or is it just comparing apples to apples? Im interested in any knowledge, opinions, and ideas anybody has on this topic, and Deere's relationship with Hitachi in general.

 

[Lee (MN)]

MHO, I have no experience with the smaller rigs, we have a 800 Deere and an 800 Hitachi and the only difference is paint and the seat cover. The deere has 16,000 plus hours. We also run several 750 Hitachi's with N14 Cummins, the Cummins is not a good match and only one has made it over 10,000 hrs. The Isuzu is a better engine in my opinion, like the energizer bunny. Our 350 and 450 deere had engine issues with the previous owners but I cannot speak for how well they were cared for, If you run the JD engine out of fuel it's a major PIA to get running. If I were purchasing it would be orange with an Isuzu!.

Lee

 

[Randy88]

Hitachi made the deere machines in the start, deere put their own engine's in them, can't verify it but the rest was supposed to be the same, deere is supposed to have marketing rights now for the hitachi machines in the USA I've been told. I don't have experience with the deere machines myself other than the older one's they put deere engines in and I own several other machines with that same engine in them, they didn't want to start when it was under 50 degree's out, were not that fuel efficient and had issues with every size they had.

IMO, the Isuzu is the way to go, have had a few of them and never had an issue with them, start in extreme cold weather, probably start when it too cold out in fact, maybe they shouldn't start that good when it's 30 below zero, but they do start and run fine, never need either to get them going..............ever. and are a bullet proof engine as far as I'm concerned.

Now that said, its up to your dealer or network of dealers, for support, meaning your dealing with Deere and they have the tendency to change their minds on things like corporate relationships, then independent dealers have their own idea's on what to back or not back for parts and support, and those dealers change their minds as well, what they sell new today and promise they'll fix for 20 years with no issues, tomorrow they'll cut a deal with another vender and rather sell that brand and back it instead.

I've had parts and dealer issues in my area, along with deere's idea's at corporate level and when Hitachi went away and deere got them, there was a tremendous turmoil in my area on what they were or were not going to back and who was responsible, basically I had an excellent Hitachi dealership near me, and the next day, they were out and deere got hitachi and knew nothing about anything, no parts numbers, no service manuals, no experienced mechanics, nothing and the story changed daily on parts prices and availability.

Any machine is only as good as those that support it and back it, now not to knock deere or anyone else, its corporate America with any brand today, take your pick on which one you want to deal with and what set of problems you want to deal with as well, but Hitachi machines are great machines, the network to back them used to be great as well......................

 

[KWD]

so what is the story with Deere dozers, which ones are Liebherr

 

[KWD]

and Bell, thought they suppilied Deere with bendy trucks, excavators and shovels over there and some other markets

 

[Randy88]

Deere cut a deal with liebherr for the 950 and 1050 size dozers but I'm told they ended that deal and might be making that size themselves now, maybe someone else can say for sure one way or another on that, I've been given so many stories from deere's people as of lately, I'm not sure even they know to be honest with you.

As for the excavators, I've been told they are all basically hitchi machines with deere's engine in them, but as corporate America goes, last weeks news might be outdated by now and something completely different maybe in the lineup now, as they say thing happen fast and the trickle down effect of information takes longer to get to the public than some of the machines that are made. Again some can correct me if I'm wrong or outdated on my information.

 

[Pusskinz]

Yes Bell does make ADTs for Deere, if you look on the final drive hub of the Deere ADT line up you will see the Bell logo! In return for the ADTs i believe Bell has the rights to market Deere's TLBs and maybe something else in South Africa i believe.

 

[wornout wrench]

Here is a link that explains a bit of what is going on
http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US...deere_construction_and_forestry_division.page
and another
http://hitachiconstruction.com/history.html

A fellow that I know used to work for Wajax (Hitachi dealer in BC) and he told me that Hitachi outsells Deere 2 to 1 in Canada and Deere outsells Hitachi 4 to 1 in the states. Funny when you know that they are the same machine.
Personally I find in my neck of the woods that the product support from Deere is better then Wajax, and I have always found Deere's books to be better.
What I hate is when you order a bunch of Hitachi parts and the little baggies come with Deere numbers on them, really sucks when the O rings are really close in size.

When they are assembling the machines at the Deere Hitachi specialty plant in Langley BC, they go down the line at the same time, like they say, paint and seat covers, other then that, not much difference.

 

[Lee (MN)]

Here is a link that explains a bit of what is going on
http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US...deere_construction_and_forestry_division.page
and another
http://hitachiconstruction.com/history.html

A fellow that I know used to work for Wajax (Hitachi dealer in BC) and he told me that Hitachi outsells Deere 2 to 1 in Canada and Deere outsells Hitachi 4 to 1 in the states. Funny when you know that they are the same machine.
Personally I find in my neck of the woods that the product support from Deere is better then Wajax, and I have always found Deere's books to be better.
What I hate is when you order a bunch of Hitachi parts and the little baggies come with Deere numbers on them, really sucks when the O rings are really close in size.

When they are assembling the machines at the Deere Hitachi specialty plant in Langley BC, they go down the line at the same time, like they say, paint and seat covers, other then that, not much difference.

X2 on parts, seems they change p/n weekly, then you get orange parts for your Deere and yellow for the orange rig. Very well built machines IMHO.

Lee

 

[AndrewC]

Deere cut a deal with liebherr for the 950 and 1050 size dozers but I'm told they ended that deal and might be making that size themselves now, maybe someone else can say for sure one way or another on that, I've been given so many stories from deere's people as of lately, I'm not sure even they know to be honest with you.

There is a John Deere 1050K dozer in Edmonton right now. They are 100% deere. Sauer danfoss hydraulic/ hydrostatic system. John deere 13.5L engine in it.

As for Bell. The new trucks 310E, 410E and 460E are all deere the older ones are Bell and still are being sold but not for much longer. Bell got the better end of the deal, they got almost the whole deere line up to be sold as bells. http://www.bellequipment.com/en/products

 

[Deeretracks]

Glad to hear they re-engineered the 1050K. I worked on the 1050c's when they 1st came out, what a piece of sh@t! I was just looking at a 1050J and it didn't seem like much changed. Was also trained on the old C series Deere ADT's when they came out, equally terrible. The 1st D series trucks had many issues too but started to come around when Deere got their hands on them. The old B30B's were something else.

 

[cutting edge]

There is a John Deere 1050K dozer in Edmonton right now. They are 100% deere. Sauer danfoss hydraulic/ hydrostatic system. John deere 13.5L engine in it.

As for Bell. The new trucks 310E, 410E and 460E are all deere the older ones are Bell and still are being sold but not for much longer. Bell got the better end of the deal, they got almost the whole deere line up to be sold as bells. http://www.bellequipment.com/en/products

to be clear,the 950 and 1050 j machines were liebherrs with deere stickers on them.

The new K is an all deere machine, but much of it appears to be carried over from the J.

As for the trucks, the D series were always bells(with deere decals), with some having deere engines (250d and 300d). As far as Im concerened,wajax can have them back...I always found them to be annoying to work on.

The E series are pretty good though

 

[AndrewC]

I hope they redesigned the undercarriage on the Ks I dont know about the Js but all I work on is 950C and 1050C, if they have it could be quite a good machine.
I think besides the engine deere also changed the electrical adding the ssm on the trucks. The new e series trucks seem like they are good machines. We have a few over 2000 hours now and they seem to be holding up well.
Dont get me started on the B trucks deeretracks!

 

[Deeretracks]

If I never see another Kusel coupler again it will be too soon!

 

[mestizo]

The new K is an all deere machine, but much of it appears to be carried over from the J.

First part of this sentence is correct, second part is not - a K Crawler Dozer/Loader is 0% carried over from Liebherr, Deere designed and made in the good ol USA.

450-850 have always been Deere designed, made in USA
605/655/755 D Series Loaders used to be Liebherr rebadged, but are Deere designs starting with K Series and made in USA
Only the 950/1050 C and J are Liebherr designed

 

[KWD]

I got to see a Bell shovel for the first time recently, seemed to be a rebadged Deere , look good and well put together

 

[DeereTech]

Ok so, i know that Deere uses Hitachi excavators,

No, and to clarify for those who didn't read the Deere history link..

Mid-Sized Excavators (7.5-38 Metric Tons) are Built in North Carolina at the Kernersville Deere-Hitachi Excavator Plant. Such as 200DLC, 240DLC, 250GLC, 350DLC/GLC etc. Its a joint venture. There are literally are only a few minor differences: the engine, the engine controller, and the seat.

The large Excavators (450-850DLC / 470-870GLC ) and the RTS (reduced tailswing) excavators (ie 135DLC, 225DLC) are built in Japan at the Hitachi Factory. I do believe the Mid sized hitachi Excavators are also built there are well, but probably not destined for the NA market. They are shipped over in pieces and we reassemble at the dealership.

Mini Excavators are built in Mexico by John Deere.

If you go to Wajax, and order a piece of Hitachi machinery; wajax orders the unit through - Deere & Company - North America.

Deere sees a cut of the money, and this is why they have no need, or desire to compete in large scale mining machinery.


I find the deere engines are cheaper to repair and easier to get parts for. The isuzu engines are nice, but expensive and more labour intensive. When the isuzu goes down, it goes hard. You can pull a Deere engine, and have a Reman in less than 24 hours delivered and installed. Deere have a huge parts network in North America. We don't wait around for Days or weeks like the Cat guys (at least in terms of Finning Canada)

Purpose built Forestry swing machines such as Log Loaders and Processors using Excavator Base machines are built in Langley BC at DHSP (Deere Hitachi Specialty Products). Another joint venture.

Liebherr built machines are being slowly phased out model by model. Liebherr has resisted, as branding their machines JD increased their market share in NA, but its all but done. Thank-gob. Over engineered Pieces of junk.

Bell built machines are mostly phased out. Thank-god.

Oh yeah, and Deere owns Waratah, the processor head for the DHSP Forestry Swing Machines.

 

[Randy88]

DeereTech, you forgot to mention when deere started doing this at each location? And how it was done before each location was setup, some of us own and operate much older machines than your thinking about, like the first deere/hitachi excavators many decades old.

Post the link to deere's history, oh yea, welcome to the forum

 

[DeereTech]

Excavators without a Metric Ton model designation (270DLC is 27 metric tons, whilst 690E LC is not, and the LC is Long Carriage) are generally built in Japan. It's pretty simple, look at the first 2-3 letters on the machine PIN plate. The Serial numbers contain factory codes.

FF (Kernersville, North Carolina) Excavators
T (Dubuque, Iowa) Dozers
AP (Saltillo, Mexico) mini excavators
DW (Davenport, Iowa) The Articulated Dump trucks are built here, using some Bell Components (ie axles).
BE (Richards Bay, South Africa) Non Davenport ADTs are usually not found in Canada/USA.

Its true, there are retired machines sitting on farms here and there. Those are not getting 2500+ hours a year on them.

 

[The Learner]

where does airman come into this
http://www.airman.co.jp/en/product/product08.html

i thought hitachi's up to 6 ton were just these little blue diggers painted orange and then deere bought orange ones washed off the paint and painted them yellow?

or do airman buy yellow diggers that were painted orange and then throw a coat of blue on them?