Deutz dumper..... diesel in the engine

[rich_5656]

Hi, i have a 3 cylinder Deutz F3L 1011F in a dumper.

The other day it went into run-away and i couldn't stop it, lots of white smoke but eventually stopped.
Since then i've drained the oil to find lots of diesel in it.
If i drain some out of the oil sump i can run it for a little while but lots of diesel getting in the engine.

Any suggestions where i should be looking?
Found a common fault is the injector pumps leaking. Does this sound a good place to start?

I've read they are timed up with the fuel rack. Can anyone explain how i remove the injector pump's to have them checked, and put them back in the right way please?

Seen a timing pin mentioned that goes in a bolt hole near the injector pumps, just can't find specifically how to do it. don't want to take it apart and not be able to get it back timed up again?

Thanks in advance.

 

[funwithfuel]

I think this is what you are referring to . Please attach a pic of your engine, I might be able to help more. I have never known a D3 to power a truck . If your runaway died on its own , without running out of fuel or oil, I'd really want to investigate further

 

[rich_5656]

I think this is what you are referring to . Please attach a pic of your engine, I might be able to help more. I have never known a D3 to power a truck . If your runaway died on its own , without running out of fuel or oil, I'd really want to investigate further

I'm afraid these are the only photos i have at the moment. Its only a small 1T dumper.
I'll get the injector pumps tested, i'm just unsure how to remove/refit the injector pumps correctly, so they're still timed with the fuel rack etc.
The document you added looks helpful thanks.

 

[rich_5656]

Photos included

 

[funwithfuel]

Please read the previous reply attachment.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Check the supply pump 1st.
U see that lone 10mm bolt between the 2 injectors.?? Thats where u pin the control rack to pull & install the injectors..
BE VERY CAREFUL.!!! if your off just a little bit & tighten the pumps down & miss the control rack hole, it'll bend the control rack & you'll hafta pull the engine down to fix/replace it..
SO.. check the supply pump 1st..

 

[Peter Webster]

Hi I am hoping someone can advise me. I have a genie scissor lift with a deutz 1011.
original problem was a no start. Then a non deutz diesel mechanic tried to get it running.
He pulled out all the injector pumps and had them all serviced - he said one was stuck.
After he reinstalled them he placed the injector pump pins in the B slot-(see photo) and the engine started but revved very highly and we had a runaway situation. Managed to stop it by blocking the intake.
After reading info here and other places, I advised him to put the pin into position A- which was the original position. But again the motor wouldnt start. He says its not even priming the injectors;

I am wondering now whether the runaway could be due to a pickup pump leaking oil into the crankcase. I dont really understand how this occurs, but I have read it is a possibility. The mechanic remarked that the oil level had gone down quite a bit and he didnt understand why. Could this be connected to the problem?

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated

 

[thepumpguysc]

The pump rack definitely goes in A position..
If your rack is stuck, that could b the problem..
The engine rack must b checked for freedom of movement after each pump is installed..
If this unit has an electric shutdown solenoid on it.?? THAT could be the problem also.. remove it and put the pumps in.. BUT.. more than likely, when he put them in the other position, it bent the engine control rack, hence the run away..

 

[funwithfuel]

I would speculate that he dropped one of the pins on the control rack and bent it. With pumps out one at a time and the fuel shut off removed, you should be able to work the rack back and forth easily with light finger pressure. If you have to use a tool to pry it, its probably bent.
When I replace pumps, I use a small screwdriver where the lock pin goes. I exercise the rack from side to side or I push in on the rack from the where the shut off hits it. It should always be very loose, no bind.
Good luck.

 

[funwithfuel]

Man, pumpguy a much quicker type outer than me.
BTW happy Thanksgiving bud

 

[Peter Webster]

The pump rack definitely goes in A position..
If your rack is stuck, that could b the problem..
The engine rack must b checked for freedom of movement after each pump is installed..
If this unit has an electric shutdown solenoid on it.?? THAT could be the problem also.. remove it and put the pumps in.. BUT.. more than likely, when he put them in the other position, it bent the engine control rack, hence the run away..

Thanks for confirming the position.
He tells me that the fuel rack is moving freely so based on that , the rack hasnt been bent. In which direction does the rack get bent? Is it bent vertically- ie as the pumps are tightened down into the block, the pin contacts the rack in an area where there is no slot, and so bends it downwards? or have I got this wrong?
The mechanic , tells me that he put the pin in position B which is another "slot" but not as deep. Could it be that he jammed the pin in this shallower slot and prevented the rack from moving freely without bending it?
I was watching when he tightened the pumps down and they were tightened down flat with the block. he also commented that the pumps were slightly offset when in position B, probably to facilitate the shallower slot?
Am i making sense?

Regarding the solenoid, that was the very first thing that we tried before any pumps were removed. but it made no difference and there was no fuel coming out of the injector pumps. Complete no start. Our next step was to take the pumps out and get them serviced , reportedly one was "stuck". It was only after they were serviced and replaced in position B that the runaway started.

The oil level had declined which suggests to me that the oil somehow is being used as a secondary fuel source causing the runaway, but thats just me a novice speculating.

 

[Peter Webster]

I would speculate that he dropped one of the pins on the control rack and bent it. With pumps out one at a time and the fuel shut off removed, you should be able to work the rack back and forth easily with light finger pressure. If you have to use a tool to pry it, its probably bent.
When I replace pumps, I use a small screwdriver where the lock pin goes. I exercise the rack from side to side or I push in on the rack from the where the shut off hits it. It should always be very loose, no bind.
Good luck.

I think I am going to ask him to confirm this looseness in the rack. thanks for your input

 

[thepumpguysc]

There should be access to the engine rack thru the hole he used to pin the rack..?? Insert a small screwdriver or pick to see if he can move it .. There may be a small plate on the front of the engine, in-line w the engines control rack..
Remove the plate for access to the rack.??
I always started w the hardest 1 first..that would b back by the firewall.. drop it in, tighten it down, THEN pull/ push on the rack to check freedom of movement, then on to the next..repeating the action.
I’ve had 2 in my career that had bent racks.. ( before coming to me)
The bend was on the end pump, fan side & 1 was in the middleman pump..
The rack is made from a very flimsy “pot metal”..& once it’s bent, it stays bent..
I’ve tried to bend it back in shape per customer request once..
The lead time was several weeks on a new rack & gaskets and he needed his machine..
I patched it for him, the rpms were very slow but he didn’t care.. as long as it didn’t run away and he could shut it off was all he wanted.. until the new parts arrived..
It was a chore, that’s for sure..
Putting in 1 pump @ a time, checking the rack movement, putting in the next pump, having it lock up the rack, pulling it back out, twisting the rack w vise grips and doing that over & over again..

 

[Peter Webster]

Once again thanks for everyones advice.

I have opened the hole for the rack pin, and tried to move the rack with all 4 pumps still in place. It doesnt seem to move. Should it move with all 4 pumps installed in position A?
I cannot see any plate for removal .
I have also removed the solenoid and I think I can visualise the end of the Rack= is that the end of it visible through the solenoid opening? i have tried to move it but again its very stiff. I tried to see what happens when I use a wrench to move the crank , but it doesnt seem to move.
Next step is to take the pumps out again and see if the rack can be moved through the pump opening

 

[Peter Webster]

So update. The rack was definitely binding with all 4 pumps in as installed by the french mechanic. I took each one out one by one starting with the RHS and moving left. The first 2 were sitting quite passively and didn't pop up after removing the nuts. The other 2 seemed to pop up a bit , upon release of the nuts.
I checked the rack carefully after removing 1 and 2 pumps and it was binding. I then decided to remove 3 and 4 at the same time.
After all 4 pumps were removed the rack to my surprise moved quite freely and sprang back . There was only a light bind if the rack was pushed to the right of its spring back position

to my amateur eyes, that rack is behaving pretty normally, as if it hasnt been damaged

 

[funwithfuel]

I'm gonna ask if you could post a pic of the pumps, as you removed them. There's a lock wire installed for shipping purposes and must be removed before starting. I'm wondering if one or all were left in.

 

[Peter Webster]

video shows the 2 pumps that wont go back in. Excuse the dust on them, the dog liked the blanket they were lying on!

 

[funwithfuel]

They'll go in, they're probably just out of time. You have to compress the plunger to free the rack pin. Try and get them evened up with the ones that go in. Just don't force anything.

 

[Peter Webster]

The rack pins are rotating freely on the pumps. I have tried rotating them a little each way, and they just won't slot in. I have tried lining them up with the slot , and even used the screwdriver in the rack pinhole to jiggle the rack from side to side.
Is there something that I am misunderstanding?

 

[funwithfuel]

Typically, those pins are very stiff to rotate on the body without compressing that plunger. Are they all the same part number? They should be dropping right in, especially with you moving the rack side to side. Maybe pumpguy will join in .