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Dumb accident

Countryboy

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Jun 8, 2006
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Georgia
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Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Squizzy, in reference to your towing limit question, it would most likely be 5,000 lbs or less. That is a midsize truck, a Dodge Dakota, which is in the smaller than 1/2 ton class in the US.

My Nissan Frontier probably has near the same towing specs as the Dakota. I wouldn't want to tow that machine with my Nissan if the machine was being given away for free. :spaz
 

bobcatuser

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Dec 26, 2005
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89
Location
Richmond BC
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Excavation Contractor
I couldn’t imagine pulling a 9,500 lb load with a dodge dakota. The driver should be charged with criminal neglance. In the province of BC all insurance would be void and the driver would be billed for any damage to public property.
 

Squizzy246B

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Perth, Western Australia
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Digger Driver
Squizzy, in reference to your towing limit question, it would most likely be 5,000 lbs or less. That is a midsize truck, a Dodge Dakota, which is in the smaller than 1/2 ton class in the US.

My Nissan Frontier probably has near the same towing specs as the Dakota. I wouldn't want to tow that machine with my Nissan if the machine was being given away for free. :spaz

Thanks CB..a 247B is around 7000lbs wet so this guy is well outa line then.

bobcatuser
I couldn’t imagine pulling a 9,500 lb load with a dodge dakota. The driver should be charged with criminal neglance. In the province of BC all insurance would be void and the driver would be billed for any damage to public property.

Exactly, and if the rental yard is the owner of the machine....well they were not looking after their own interests when they let it go out...even if the dealer does fix it. The there is the legals facing the driver.
 

Steve Frazier

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According to Dodge's website, the current Dakota can tow up to 7000 lbs., still much less than the 247/trailer combo. This looks like an older model so I wouldn't be surprised if its towing capacity is less. I actually thought the machine looked like it was loaded correctly, it sits just ahead of the center of the two axles which would put a fair amount of tongue weight on the trailer. This is about the same point I load my machine for the best handling. You can cause poor handling by putting too much weight on the tongue, your steering becomes less responsive.

I'm aware of what our laws have become, I made my statement about responsibility based on common sense, not law. I'm sure some attorney would be able to convince a jury that the yard the machine was towed from was somehow at least partly responsible for this accident. But think about this a minute, the driver of the vehicle will be the one receiving the tickets for this accident, not the yard personnel. They might become involved in a civil suit, but not the V & T portion of it. This was my point.

Our justice system has become a playground for greedy attorneys looking for a fast buck. As I see it, many laws which are passed these days are not so much to improve public safety as they are to give attorneys another avenue to bring a lawsuit by, thereby making it easier to fill their pockets. We all pay for this in one way or another, either by increased prices of a product, higher insurance rates or increased taxes if it is a public entity that must pay a claim. This is not to mention the inconvenience of using a tool that has had a "safety feature" added to it after losing a suit to some idiot that has used their product incorrectly.

Look at what has happened to many of the products we use in daily life. Small homeowner type lawn mowers are difficult to start and must be restarted every time you need to move debris out of its path. Why? Because too many idiots stuck their hands under the machine while it was running and came out with detached appendages. McDonald's has had to adjust the temperature of their coffee and snowblowers are as difficult to run as mowers now too. All due to idiocy of the public who had accidents misusing them.

Our government was not formed to protect the citizens from themselves and their own stupidity!! It was formed to protect our God given rights, which are slowly being chipped away by the government itself. If this trend continues, how long will it be before we are not able to buy circular or chain saws? Will knives only be allowed a certain degree of sharpness? I'm willing to bet that 100 years from now, many of the tools we use as contractors will no longer be available for safety's sake.

How long before this "protection" extends beyond physical safety? Will the government become involved in protecting us after making stupid investments? What if our feelings get hurt if we must sit through a prayer we might not want to hear? Wait a minute.....that's been addressed.....prayer in schools have been eliminated.

In this case, HeyUvaVT says the yard personnel warned the driver of the risk he was taking in towing this machine. I wasn't there to hear it, but I'll take his word for it. This driver chose to disregard their advice and paid the consequence for it.He is responsible for his own actions, no one else. And yes, someone, even an innocent bystander could have been hurt or killed.....but they weren't. Life is a series of lessons learned, and this appears to be one of them. I doubt this driver will attempt to do this again.

Did anyone notice the boom operator standing under the boom while loading the wreck on the flatbed? If the boom fails and injures this guy, are the bystanders responsible for his injuries because they didn't make him move? How about the manufacturer of the boom for building such a hazardous tool? Maybe the driver of the wrecked truck is responsible, since without his stupid move the operator wouldn't need to be there in the first place!

Sorry for the rant guys, I see this "Land of Opportunity" slowly becoming a land of sterility through its protectiveness.
 

digger242j

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Southwestern PA
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You make lots of good points there, Steve, and I'm in agreement for the most part. There's far, far too much shifting of responsibility to somebody else in today's world.

This goes beyond legal liability though, and it's there that I'm focusing.

My view of this particular incident, is as I said. The guys who chained that machine on the trailer knew he was about to do something hazardous, and failed to intervene. Even further, they assisted him. If he'd managed to kill sombody, and you'd been the one to chain that machine down for him and send him on his way, would you be able to sleep tonight?

I see it in the same light as helping a drunk leaving the bar to find his car keys.
 

CM1995

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Right on the money Steve!:thumbsup

Our rights to Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness are being eroded on a daily basis. It seems like these days nothing is ever anyones fault - they are all "victims" of someone elses actions. Personal responsibility has went the way of the dinosaours in this country and if this trend is not reversed we will need a permit to take a dump and a full body suit with a respirator to legally go outside.

It has been posted that the rental yard warned this driver of the safety issues assocated with this contraption, which I can totally see them doing.
If this is true then this accident is totally the drivers fault. It is the responsibility of the driver to inspect the load for distribution, safe securement and legal weight limits - regardless of who loads it or chains it down.

The argument that he did not know that this truck would not safely pull this weight is a bunch of hooey. If the driver did not understand that this truck would not pull the weight safely, then it is his responsibilty to know this prior to picking up the machine. Furthermore if the driver did not understand this or refused to listen, then does he really need to be renting a skid steer?

What if they would have refused to let him rent it and pull it with this truck? What's next - he sues the rental yard over some kind of discrimination, violating his "civil rights" or his self esteem has been irreversibly damaged because he does not have a bigger truck and that is just not "fair"? LOL That's the kind of crap that businesses have to put up with. Great example is the hot coffee at McDonalds - now you can't even get a stinking cup of hot coffee because some numb nut spilled it in their lap.

I was in one of those bed and bath stores the other day with my wife. I came across a sausage grinder that had a warning sticker on it that consisted of a hand being put into the grinder with a red circle and bar across it. Geez - if you are so stupid you don't know not to stick you hand in a meat grinder:badidea then do you really have any business buying one?

Try as they might - the government cannot legistlate intelligence, all they can do is make the rest of us suffer for someone else's stupidity.:pointhead

Ok I am climbing of my :soapbox
 
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Blademan

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Nov 21, 2003
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Calgary
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Operating Engineer
Thanks for the thread and picture posting HeyUvaVT . :drinkup :notworthy .


I really don't have anything new to add to this except to say that I too think if the guy chaining up the machine even thought it was a unsafe load , then he should've put the brakes on this endeavor in the first place , rather then take a chance and trusting the driver . A warning and best wishes with good intentions just doesn't cut it anymore . Sad really :(
 

jmac

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All very good points and I can't disagree with the fact that you are responsible for your actions. Consider this; the rental yard owned the machine and trailer so it would be in their discretion on who rents the machine. No gray area here either yes or no. It would make complete sense to me to have a policy of only renting machines to people that have proper tow vehicle. This is common sense. I would also point out that if you see someone (even a complete stranger) doing something that could cause death or serious injury to others or the stranger, is it not the rite thing to do to point that out. This is what the rental yard did so they took it to at least that step but the fact that it was the rental yards property and they had allot to loose than they should have just said no. Isn't this like me renting my dump truck for money to someone without a license? Then that driver went out killed someone with my dump truck? I new it was wrong to rent my truck to someone with out a license, so am I not responsible for my actions? The rental company did this for profit, no other reason than that. They understood the consequences of their actions and choose not to consider them.
You can't relieve them of their responsibility in this.
 

stuvecorp

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lake wissota, wisconsin
Was the driver a contractor or homeowner?

We have a Towmaster tilt like that but I always back our skid on the trailer and it is always towed by a dual wheeled f350 or f450. We have towed our Polaris Asl300 behind a f150 and I thought it was scary, even with brakes all the way around.

I agree with Steve about personal responsablity but the yard loaded the skid and chained it down furthering the train wreck potential. They could have stopped this from happening.

Thanks for posting, good discussion.
 

atgreene

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Sebago, Maine
I couldn’t imagine pulling a 9,500 lb load with a dodge dakota. The driver should be charged with criminal neglance. In the province of BC all insurance would be void and the driver would be billed for any damage to public property.


There's a difference between pulling a 9500 lb load with a DRIVER that knows what he's doing and a moron driver. Lets face it, if you're grossly overweight with a trailer behind an underated truck, do you get on the highway? :confused:

This moron deserved to wreck, as long as the rental yard told him it didn't look safe, what are they supposed to do, start checking weight ratings on pick-ups and trailers? As long as they said sign here, it's up to you to haul it safely, I guess they did their part. For their sake, I hope they sold him the extra insurance.
 

HeyUvaVT

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Virginia
I checked in with the guy who posted this that works at the rental yard again..they have decided to change their policy on loading things for customers...no more overweight rigs leaving...they are in the process of cataloging all available towing configurations and ratings for toyota ford dodge chevy and nissan and will not allow anyone over the rating to leave...this truck also didnt even have a brake contoller on it which is another thing they wont allow any more...so maybe some good will come of this...but I would hate to be the poor person in charge of the cataloging of all that info and enforcing it on harry homeowner the weekend warrior :Banghead :Banghead
 

atgreene

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Yea, what are they supposed to do, make harry homeowner test his brakes etc... when he is loading, check the chains for rating, look for breakaway devices, etc... etc....?

Seems like harry homeowner needs to take the responsibility by signing on the dotted line that he knows what he's doing and will do it safely.:pointhead
 

jmac

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If Harry Home owner drives up with a truck that anybody with any bit of common sense could tell was to small than yes they should not be able to take the machine with them. This ws not a close call, this was simple for any one to see the dangers. Someone who was not in the construction biz could tell this was too small of a truck!
 

atgreene

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If Harry Home owner drives up with a truck that anybody with any bit of common sense could tell was to small than yes they should not be able to take the machine with them. This ws not a close call, this was simple for any one to see the dangers. Someone who was not in the construction biz could tell this was too small of a truck!


Could have hauled it with a new Toyota 3/4 ton? How bought a heavy half ton? A dodge 1/2 ton? Should they check the trailer brakes to be sure they work? How about tire tread depth? It's a slippery slope. If they are hooking the trailer to a Subaru outback, maybe it's obvious, but when it's hooked to a truck, at what point is it too small?

Who's going to want to run a rental yard if you have to do a complete safety inspection on someones vehicle before you can let them rent. I tend to believe that Darwin was right, the morons tend to end up t!ts-up, and will weed themselves out. Regardless of how hard we try, idiots will find a way to hurt themselves.
 

stuvecorp

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lake wissota, wisconsin
Keeping the equipment away from homeowners would be a good start. It is scary that load left the yard without a brake controller too. This was just a bad deal.
 

itsgottobegreen

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Nov 1, 2005
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Maryland
Tell customers there are no trailers for rent anymore. Anything requiring a trailer must be deliveried by rental company roll back only.
 
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HeyUvaVT

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Jan 18, 2007
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Virginia
Tell customers there are no trailers for rent anymore. Anything requiring a trailer must be deliveried by rental company roll back only.

that sounds like the best compromise to me....i agree that it would be easy to tell that anything smaller than a half ton truck is just rediculous when used to tow anything more than a small boat or a lawnmower...but once you get to the half ton trucks the lines get a bit blurred...most of us on this site forget that just because its common sense to us doesnt mean that its that obvious to anyone else

i would just like to ask one question...if that homeowner was crazy enough to try something that dangerous towing it home..just imagine what he might have done with the loader once he got it home for the weekend and was tryin to get maybe just another couple inches closer that that ravine..or a few feet farther toward the pond etc etc etc :eek:
 

thejdman04

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Illinois
Yea, what are they supposed to do, make harry homeowner test his brakes etc... when he is loading, check the chains for rating, look for breakaway devices, etc... etc....?

Seems like harry homeowner needs to take the responsibility by signing on the dotted line that he knows what he's doing and will do it safely.:pointhead

Exactly, at least the t hign was chained down more then I see a lot of times. If you bring a truck trailer in a rental ayard is the employee supposed to inspect the tires brakes etc??? Are rental yard enmmployees dot cops??? INspectors??? Even if you have E rated tires if they are under inflated could blow, send the truck fishtailing and roll, are they supposed to check tire inflation too?????? Joe blow brings in this trailer and rig, you tell him this is the amchine it weighs this much and he loads it (key there dont let the rental yard employee load it), hes responsible. I do think ford gm and toyota are overly zelous about 10000lb tow rating w/these 1/2 tons, esp w/the typical homeowner driving.
 
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