Estimators ?

[Countryboy]

I've been to high. I think i need to factor in that a crew would be in one spot for a longer time and there might be more usable material or salvagable loam etc on a larger site , less mobilization etc. I am getting alot of good info on this thread , that i'm not the only one needing info on estimating practices.

Yes, it has been informative. Although I don't need one, its nice to learn how the process works.:yup

 

[Wolf]

Estimating Book

Does it cover estimating for demolition, or just the excavation once the structure is down and gone?

 

[Jeff D.]

Does it cover estimating for demolition, or just the excavation once the structure is down and gone?

You know,I don't recall any demo estimating in the book.

I sent it off already so I can't even take a peek now to see. Sorry!

 

[CascadeScaper]

I bought the "Estimating Excavation" book Jeff is talking about, great book. Helped me out ALOT. I used it on about 3 jobs this summer that were just a little above my expertise level. Bidding on $25K jobs at the age of 20 was something that I wasn't really ready to do, I just had to do it. Book helped me alot, especially the formulas.

 

[fensoncont.]

This may sound wierd because of my age, but I know a fair amount about excavation work. I have the Estimating Excavation book, and read it, loved it. I also have the Caterpillar Performance Handbook Edition 36, and I have read the earthmoving section. I get old blueprints, documents, and bid tabs from my uncle and then spend hours estimating them. One job the real winning bid was $939,000 on a san. sewer project, and mine was $907,000. Another time his the real winners was $256,000 and mine was $248,000. I'm not sure if anyone will want to ask me a question, but if so please do so.[EMAIL="XXXXXXXXXX[/EMAIL]

Thanks
Nolan

 

[LaLaMan]

THere are some books out there. Text books not just cost/time books.

I would think that a good way to guage your ability to to get some govt bid work, and bid it, and you can eaisly find out what the winning bid was. Although the govt does not do large site work, maybe in your area the same site work contractors are also doing govt bid work. For instance, Constuctioneer lists in each publication upcoming work to bid on, and then also lists work that has been bid on and who won it, and gives the other 2 non winning contractors price. Since many companies do work for govt, and private it might be good practice.

There are trade orginations that have seminars, and trade publications that advertise for companies that do estimating for companies like yourself.

 

[dayexco]

being low bidder everytime isn't the answer.

 

[Countryboy]

I agree Dayexco. I could bid $100,000 for a $200,000 job and win the bid. I didn't make any money though. You've got to bid to make profit and cover your costs. Sometimes the numbers just ain't gonna work.

 

[jmac]

being low bidder everytime isn't the answer.

Thats coming from a guy I think has been around for a while :bouncegri

What I have come to realize is a relationship with the GC is the only way you are going to win. The GC will tell you were your price has to be if they want to use you for the project. Price only counts when you are doing GOV bids and that mostly goes to a GC not an excavating contractor. You will need bonding also to do GOV work. I can get bonding but the bonding company wants to look up my skirt before they will bond me, was a pain to do. I belong to a Builders Association and get a fax every week of all the work being quoted in my state. So if I want to, I can quote the work but it always includes more than just excavating, so what I do is find out who the GC's are that are bidding work and contact them. Back to my original point, the GC can use you for a number but the relationship you have with them will get you the job not your price. You have to sell you company and what you can do for the GC for them to take a chance on you. Or your reputation from other GC's and other projects you have done will get the work. You are only as good as your last biggest project. Then you have to hope they do their part and pay you for your work. Please feel free to add to this, I am learning everyday.

 

[2004F550]

In college now I am taking estimating and site is by far the hardest that I've learned, gets easier as you go but to start with it is a real time consumer. I am starting to get proficent at it, useing the grids and such, even though no contractor in his right mind would try to use the grid techniquw for big jobs anymore.

 

[D3B Dave]

Almost all of the work I do is contract work accquired by bidding. I enjoy it since what is expected is spelled out in black and white. Even though a contractor is low bidder he may not get the job. An example of that is December's bid letting for MoDOT. On a project I planned to bid but did not due to requirements I did not like. The low bid as read was 231,815.00, the next low bid was 425,028.50. The next several bidders were in the 400-500 range. The lowest bid did not get the job. The Designer determined that the low bidder was not a responsible bidder, due to his very low bid. The estimated price range was 500K - 750K. Most Designers and Bonding companies want the low bidder to be within 10% of the next bidder. If not they get nervous. My last two bids I was the second low bidder buy 7%. I have found the Cat Performance Hand Book to be very helpful.
I always make a site visit to get a feel of the project. Then I set down with the drawings and begin to work the numbers. I have found that you have to know the cycle times that each project requires. You can then figure your costs.
Moving up to larger jobs is not difficult if you know your cycle times, and the time allowed to complete the job. You can then get a number of equipment and workers required. I add 5% to my bid for TWA (trouble, worry, aggravation).
Sorry for the long post, nothing good on TV.

 

[jmac]

Dave, do you get bonding on most of your projects? Are you acting as the GC or a sub? Do you have a group of GC's that you work with? Will the GC's tell you if your number is good? Sorry for all the questions. :bouncegri
Thanks

 

[D3B Dave]

jmac, All of my jobs are bonded except the very few that are under 25K. Those I will bid if it is slow to keep work for an employee.
I always go in as GC, I some times hire subs, but not very often.
Over the years I have come to know some local contractors. Most of them are good friends. Because of that I never discuss any bid work, as I do not know who their friends are. Their friends could be some of my competition.
It takes some experience to know what to bid, it also helps to know who the competition is. I do not worry about bidding too low as you have to know your production costs. I generally decide how much money I want to make off the job, and add that to the production costs.
See Ya

 

[jmac]

Sounds like you are down the road a lot further than I am. I have been at full time for a relatively short time when it comes to building an excavating company so I have found it hard to make in roads into the larger work. I don't think that I am ready for the GC route yet for many reasons but mostly can't carry that much debt for long time frames. Also don't have the man power or expertise in many of the other trades. Every year gets better with more contacts and that’s a good sign. This is a long term business and it does take a while. The larger projects I have quoted scared me to death, god forbid I get one and have to finance the thing. I know I have to do it, just a little apprehensive. Thanks for the reply, if it was easy everyone would do it. :yup

 

[DigDug]

I want to thank multiple people on here for all the helpful information that i have recieved in this thread , by email , and even a $40.00 book sent to me free by Jeff D. that i havent been able to put down since it showed up today. This info could never have been found even 10 years ago without the help of the internet and this equipment forum. :notworthy Thanks again. Doug

 

[Jeff D.]

I want to thank multiple people on here for all the helpful information that i have recieved in this thread , by email , and even a $40.00 book sent to me free by Jeff D. that i havent been able to put down since it showed up today. This info could never have been found even 10 years ago without the help of the internet and this equipment forum. :notworthy Thanks again. Doug

Cool!:thumbsup

 

[dayexco]

when a GC tells me that "this is where you need to be". i get REAL scared. i know where i have to be. i've had jobs where i've left 25-30% on the table, and had the best profit margins in the end, jobs i got by 1-5%...and barely broke even. there are a lot of factors. how many bidders, how busy is competition, is the job complicated? i've got to the point where i don't worry at all anymore when i hand in bids. for the most part, if i'm the successful low bidder, depending on my work load.........i'll make at least a few bucks. best thing all you can do is the day before bid letting, is find out who planholders are. find out how busy they are in relation to time frame of job. adjust accordingly. all you have to do is prepare a bid where YOU are comfortable with, make money at. if work goes too cheap, they'll be tied up with no margin jobs freeing up the others where there's some room for profit

 

[rino1494]

when a GC tells me that "this is where you need to be". i get REAL scared. i know where i have to be. i've had jobs where i've left 25-30% on the table, and had the best profit margins in the end, jobs i got by 1-5%...and barely broke even. there are a lot of factors. how many bidders, how busy is competition, is the job complicated? i've got to the point where i don't worry at all anymore when i hand in bids. for the most part, if i'm the successful low bidder, depending on my work load.........i'll make at least a few bucks. best thing all you can do is the day before bid letting, is find out who planholders are. find out how busy they are in relation to time frame of job. adjust accordingly. all you have to do is prepare a bid where YOU are comfortable with, make money at. if work goes too cheap, they'll be tied up with no margin jobs freeing up the others where there's some room for profit

I agree, when we bid jobs we don't worry about being the lowest. No sense in screwing yourself out of money just to get work. That is why we stay small and bid the jobs we want. We don't have to scrounge around looking for work. We have 4 residential developments to bid this year, and we only need 1.

 

[jmac]

How busy I am has been a big factor. I quoted jobs in the past very low because I had nothing lined up and wanted the work real bad. In the end I did the work way cheaper than what it was worth. When I have had a lot of work lined already my price goes up and thats when i have hit a home run. Problem is I have not been at it long enough to have all my my time taken up, still see slow times ( like this month, no snow to help) and that is no fun. :crying