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Fat Alice and others

skyking1

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I picked up some grindings and the fellow has this elevator scraper for sale, along with an ancient pup. They appear to be well rooted and not going anywhere.
PXL_20230617_023556391.jpg

PXL_20230617_023618197.jpg

There is an original D4 Traxcavator along the highway out there too. Those are rare to see.
I'll get some pics of that. It has a push blade on it. Either that or they wore the bucket off.
 

CM1995

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Grab a pic of the Traxcavator. I'd like to see that.

Our county use to run those Fat Allis scrapers at their landfill along with the Fat Allis 8 sized dozers.
 

OzDozer

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Never seen a Fat Allis motor scraper and had no idea F-A built and sold them. I'm presuming they were based on the original Allis-Chalmers motor scrapers? - not a new design? Did they use Hancock Elevator bodies, or their own design?
 

OzDozer

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I was under the impression (if that's not correct, I'm sure someone will correct me) that J.E. Hancock had the patent on the elevating scraper bowl, and that his company built a very sizeable portion of the number of elevator scrapers ever built.

I was also under the impression that any company who didn't buy a Hancock elevator bowl for their equipment and who wanted to build their own, had to pay Hancock a royalty or licence fee.

The following article (below) on J.E.Hancock is illuminating, and I read where he supplied elevator bowls to Allis-Chalmers, amongst many others (as well as building his own complete elevator scrapers).

All the Hancock elevator bowls I have ever sighted, have a large ID plate on the side or rear of the bowl clearly identifying them as a Hancock Elevating Scraper product.

 

mowingman

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The article mentions the Johnson scraper, that was used by other companies with their tractor units. It does not say anything about Cat machines . I think Johnson supplied Cat with elevating scrapers at one time. I know we had a Cat 621J scraper at one of the plants where I managed mining operations. They told me it meant a Cat 621 with a Johnson elevating scraper attached. Anyone know if Cat eventually bought out Johnson?
 

Tones

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Both Caterpillar and International Harvester ran Johnson bowls,I think all the others were Hancock including Michigan, Terex
 

OzDozer

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Yes, Cat bought out Johnson by 1971. The article below explains the Johnson elevator tie-up with Cat.


The early J621's gained no popularity here due to that dreadful D336 V8 engine, which was nearly as big a hand grenade as the early Cat 3208's.

One local contractor had a large fleet of J621's, and around the late 1970's, he had repowered all 22 J621's he owned - with 22 x 855 Cummins!
The local Cummins dealer was no doubt over the moon at scoring such an engine repower coup!
 

skyking1

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washington
Late traxcavator pics.
Sorry I didn't feel like getting too close to that and bothering people. It's clearly labeled d4 there. That's pretty rare iron!
It has hinge points on there for brush rake and that's not really a bucket. Just kind of a push blade. It would be handy for balling up brush and the way that it's tarped and the can on the exhaust. I expect it's a runner.
PXL_20230625_001253035.jpg
PXL_20230625_001330623.jpgPXL_20230625_001322534.jpg
 

kshansen

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Talk of the J621 reminds me of one smaller scraper that seems to be lost or at least hard to find info online about.

Where I worked we had what I seem to recall was a 619. However just about every where I look shows the 619 with a different engine than the one I worked on had in it. Don't recall the model designation but it was a four cylinder version of the more common D343 or truck engine 1693 which was a dual over head cam six where the scraper I'm familiar with had a dual over head cam inline four. Talk about a rattling engine while cranking or at low idle!
 

CM1995

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Late traxcavator pics.
Sorry I didn't feel like getting too close to that and bothering people. It's clearly labeled d4 there. That's pretty rare iron!
It has hinge points on there for brush rake and that's not really a bucket. Just kind of a push blade. It would be handy for balling up brush and the way that it's tarped and the can on the exhaust. I expect it's a runner.
View attachment 289568
View attachment 289566View attachment 289567

That's pretty cool Sky! Thanks for taking those.
 

skyking1

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washington
I went by a half hour ago and he was out mowing. I wanted to stop by and shoot the shizzle about it, but there was a mile long line of traffic coming my way and blocking the left turn. I don't want to be that guy.
 

OzDozer

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That's a nice old Cat HT4 loader that someone has fitted with a dozer blade.
The HT4 was Cat's first hydraulic traxcavator and it was simply a long track D4 with loader tower and bucket added to it.

The 4 cyl engine in the Cat 619 that kshansen speaks of, was the D340T.
Not exactly a roaring success of a engine, as with most of Cat's early DOHC engines.

You'd be struggling to find one complete and running today. Even Cat referred to them as a "low tolerance engine" - i.e. one that needed constant attention to maintenance as their tolerances were low and it didn't take much to put them "off-song".

On the other hand, the newer 3400 series engines when released, were called "high tolerance engines", they could cope better with tolerance that were out of spec.

Richard Campbell of NZ Contractor magazine has a "write up" on the rare 619 Cat scraper. The first 619's still had a cable operated bowl!
Operator comforts were few and far between with these machines. Seats were like park benches, A/C was the wind in your face, and they bucked and bounced like the best rodeo bull!

 

kshansen

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The 4 cyl engine in the Cat 619 that kshansen speaks of, was the D340T.
Not exactly a roaring success of a engine, as with most of Cat's early DOHC engines.

You'd be struggling to find one complete and running today. Even Cat referred to them as a "low tolerance engine" - i.e. one that needed constant attention to maintenance as their tolerances were low and it didn't take much to put them "off-song".
That D340T was probably one of the first Cat diesel engine I ever worked on rebuilding. One thing I recalled about it was when we took it to the Cat dealer to have it run in on the dyno the guy running the dyno thought there was a problem before he started it. With it having the two overhead cams and only four cylinders every time on of the cams went from full open on a lobe the spring pressure on that valve would cause the cam to rotate and take up the back lash in the timing gears up the back of the engine. That would make a nasty sounding snapping noise even at low idle. The Cat D336 V-8 that was used in the 980 loader was the same way, again not one of Cat's better ideas!
 

Dug Overburden

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california
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Talk of the J621 reminds me of one smaller scraper that seems to be lost or at least hard to find info online about.

Where I worked we had what I seem to recall was a 619. However just about every where I look shows the 619 with a different engine than the one I worked on had in it. Don't recall the model designation but it was a four cylinder version of the more common D343 or truck engine 1693 which was a dual over head cam six where the scraper I'm familiar with had a dual over head cam inline four. Talk about a rattling engine while cranking or at low idle!
The 4 cylinder version is the D340, I believe it was 250HP
 

Old Growth

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Sep 30, 2019
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198
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PNW
I picked up some grindings and the fellow has this elevator scraper for sale, along with an ancient pup. They appear to be well rooted and not going anywhere.
View attachment 288555

View attachment 288556

There is an original D4 Traxcavator along the highway out there too. Those are rare to see.
I'll get some pics of that. It has a push blade on it. Either that or they wore the bucket off.

Thats MY pup trailer behind Max's scraper.

Il make you a heck of a deal on that ol relic! Lol Its a decent ol pup that is titled and goes down the road and works.

Your out in my neighborhood.

That ol cat Traxcavator you seen is at Junky Bills yard. He is the local hulk hauler so I would not assume its a runner but probably just recently covered up after he hauled it in hoping iron prices will go up before he scraps it or someone traveling the highway falls in love with it first.
 

skyking1

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washington
Pleased to meet you @Old Growth
The company Ford does not have a wet hookup and frankly, I would not want to pull a pup with the 325. Thanks for offering though :)
Pete's place is in that development of 2.5 and 5 acres in the corner of land SW of the cutoff road light. He's next to a logger in there.
.
 
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