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Gear oil recommendation
- Thread starter MJE
- Start date
I'm not sure what Hitachi wants in them but if it where at my shop to be done I'd be putting cat told 3 weight in it. Iirc Nige said they switch a Hitachi 1800? To drive Tran oil what Hitachi speed after oil samples where showing wear metals
Nige
Senior Member
We switched out the swing drive oil on our Hitachi machines to an SAE50 oil meeting Cat TO-4 spec and got some very good results, spectacular even.
We did the same thing for the final drives and the pump drive in the case where the pump drive had a separate oil reservoir.
Hitachi recommendation is an EP90 from what I remember.
We did the same thing for the final drives and the pump drive in the case where the pump drive had a separate oil reservoir.
Hitachi recommendation is an EP90 from what I remember.
I should look at the chart perhaps I should be using 50.
Nige
Senior Member
If you look at a chart comparing SAE crankcase oil viscosity (which includes TO-4) to SAE gear oil viscosity you’ll find that SAE50 falls right slap bang in the middle of the SAE90 gear oil viscosity range.
LACHAU
Senior Member
Nige
Senior Member
This graphic shows it better
Nige
Senior Member
That didn't show up very well - try again..........
Gary Layton
Well-Known Member
Chart saved...thanks for the post!
Nige
Senior Member
This came about before from a comment "You can't replace a 90-weight oil with a 50-weight, it's too light"........
Well from a pure viscosity point of view - "Why yes you can Stanley........."
Added to that TO-4 oils are designed for power transmission so there is no reason why they can't be used in this application. Let's face it if it was a Cat excavator the oil for the swing transmission and the final drives would be specced as TO-4.
Well from a pure viscosity point of view - "Why yes you can Stanley........."
Added to that TO-4 oils are designed for power transmission so there is no reason why they can't be used in this application. Let's face it if it was a Cat excavator the oil for the swing transmission and the final drives would be specced as TO-4.
LACHAU
Senior Member
I believe you have tested it, tried it and found good results.
But I want to assume that in case Hitachi EX120-3 requires a viscosity of 22 Cst at 100 degrees Celcius but SAE engine oil only reaches 18 Cst at 100 degrees Celcius, we can't use it. The difference is slight but I fear it will not be good.
However, I still believe that it can be used because you have tested it, this is just an opinion to discuss further to make it more transparent.
Nige
Senior Member
Generally in my experience Hitachi Maintenance Manuals specify recommended oils by brand (Shell, Mobil, etc) and by the name of the oil. So for instance you would find "Mobilube HD90" or "Shell Spirax MB90". They do not state that a customer can use any brand of oil provided it meets specification "X" in any compartment.
Here is the background on how we ended up using SAE50 TO-4 in our large Hitachi excavators.
The Hitachi recommended oils as per the manual were EP90 gear oils of various brands.
Apart from the Htiachi shovels we had an exclusively Cat fleet using TO-4 products in axles and final drives and we didn't have an extra tank on the lube truck for EP90.
We approached Hitachi for approval to use TO-4.
Their response "We can't approve it. We haven't tested it".
Our reply "We'll happily test it for you and share our results."
Silence from Hitachi so we went ahead and did it anyway.
On the bigger machines with 4 swing drives for our test we switched two to TO-4 and kept the other two on EP oil. At the same time we put TO-4 in one side final drive, leaving the other on EP90.
The oil analysis results were a spectacular improvement in parameters such as oxidation. The TO-4 oil was in far better condition that the EP oil when it was drained for an oil change. It did not take us long to switch all the compartments formerly using EP oil to TO-4.
On larger Hitachi machines the implement pump drive gearbox is a separate compartment to the engine. The recommendation was to use a monograde SAE40 oil. We discovered that most people were using SAE15W40 engine oil in that compartment. To us it did not make sense to use an engine oil in what was effectively a power transmission gearbox. After our test on swing drives we started asking "what if.?" and so we tried the pump drives on SAE50 TO-4. Again the results as far as oil analysis were a spectacular improvement.
Nige
Senior Member
These charts illustrate perfectly what I was commenting above. The highlighted manufacturer is the factory-fill oil. Gear Oils........
Engine oils ..........
Engine oils ..........
LACHAU
Senior Member
I agree with you that with previous machines, Hitachi Maintenance Manuals specify recommended oils by brand (Shell, Mobil, etc) and by the name of the oil.
Perhaps because customers complain too much or have to comply with world standards, Hitachi's new machines allow users to choose lubricants according to their specifications.
Perhaps because customers complain too much or have to comply with world standards, Hitachi's new machines allow users to choose lubricants according to their specifications.
Nige
Senior Member
It is nice to see that Hitachi have advanced regarding their lubricant recommendations but I would still like to see them use an accepted worldwide standard for the engine oil they recommend rather than using a Japanese standard.
J&R Con
Active Member
Lot of good info here
But all it is, is a really simple gear box with a few gears in it. So don't worry about it to much. Pump it full of grease if you want lol, just any decent gear oil will be good enough. I've seen far worse in gear boxes that spin a lot faster.
But all it is, is a really simple gear box with a few gears in it. So don't worry about it to much. Pump it full of grease if you want lol, just any decent gear oil will be good enough. I've seen far worse in gear boxes that spin a lot faster.
Nige
Senior Member
When you have a digger worth $5m a copy it focuses the mind wonderfully about what lubricants you put into it. Personally I would do the same for one that cost $100k but maybe that's me being anal.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Hitachi may specify specific brands to make it easier for customers to get the recommended oils in different countries. Newer versions of the grader I have specify a mineral type brake fluid and the spec. it has to meet. Listing brands that have the correct fluid makes it a lot easier to find and/or where to look for it.
J&R Con
Active Member
I agree with you on more complex systems, such as hydraulics systems, or gear boxes with limited slip or clutches. Or really anything more than just gears. It’s worth it to get the right oil. But in this particular case you’ve got a lower speed gear box with a few gears sitting bathed in oil. Peanut cooking oil would work for a while if that’s all you got.
I wouldn’t put the machine out of commission for even an hour just to find some 50 weight instead of 90 or vice versa.
When I changed that oil in my 270 I’m sure I grabbed whatever gear oil I had handy for minimal downtime. But adding hydraulic oil? Then Yeah I’ll drive 30 minutes into town just to get the right stuff.