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Giving warranty on used equipment

Welder Dave

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I don't think any of the new machines will have the longevity of the older transformers machines. If you break down the price I'm asking, the welder is only $500-$550cad. of the total. I don't think a 250 amp inverter would be any cheaper or as reliable over the long run.
 

OzDozer

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Don't bet on it. Used transformer welders here are only worth scrap copper value today. An inverter welder runs cooler, is much lighter, has a better duty cycle, can run higher amperage, and has no more durability issues than a transformer welder.
 

Pony

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SE Queensland
Yeah I don't know about overall quality, but here's my 2c.
Had a 180amp Chinese inverter mig, used mostly for welding gal cattle rail, building cattle yards. Had it 10yrs, never failed to work, had a few wire feed issues, but probably more wire than welder.
Got sick of carting it between properties and had a good year with cattle prices, so I lashed out and bought a 200amp Kemppi, made in Finland, supposed to be the cats meow.
Half the size and weight, welds beautifully, but 12 mths in, it died, but intermittent.
Took it back under warranty, they couldn't find anything wrong with it, 6hrs back to my half built yards, won't work again, got video.
Back to dealer, motherboard replaced this time.
Haven't really used much since, but hope it's fixed.
Did I get one of the few well built Chinese ones and one of the few bad built flash ones?
Don't know, but the Kemppi cost nearly 4x the Chinese one.
Getting a bit off topic, sorry Dave.
 

Welder Dave

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Inverters haven't been around long enough to say they're more reliable or longer lasting than transformers. Duty cycle depends on the machine. There are many instances of boards going out in inverters where they aren't worth fixing. What does a name brand inverter that goes to 250 amps and has 50% duty cycle at 200 amps cost? A Miller or Lincoln is going to be a lot more than $550. Some people try to compare machines like XMT 304's or newer 350's. Those machines aren't in the same category and cost thousands more.
 

56wrench

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alberta
I sold an old Acklands/Miller 250 Dialarc to a friend of mine about 20 yrs ago. Its about 45-50 yrs old now and the only problem he had was a diode went bad. It was a cheap fix. He welds a lot of portable corral panels
 

Welder Dave

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Yeah, diodes or the odd rheostat are about the only issues the Dialarc's ever have. They're in the same category with Lincoln Idealarc 250's. Miller stopped making the Dialarc in 2017 or 2018 but Lincoln still makes the Idealarc 250. Idealarc's have been made since 1956 with only minor differences! Dialarc's started in 1974 but there were similar models before that. The Idealarc 250 is referred to as the workhorse of the Lincoln range and are about $7300cad. new. Cables and/or power cord being a constant, what inverter has 50% duty cycle at 200 amps. and what does it cost?
 

92U 3406

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Anybody make a decent welder that does it all - stick, MIG and TIG? Might be in the market for one when I get power hooked up to the garage.
 

Welder Dave

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Yeah I don't know about overall quality, but here's my 2c.
Had a 180amp Chinese inverter mig, used mostly for welding gal cattle rail, building cattle yards. Had it 10yrs, never failed to work, had a few wire feed issues, but probably more wire than welder.
Got sick of carting it between properties and had a good year with cattle prices, so I lashed out and bought a 200amp Kemppi, made in Finland, supposed to be the cats meow.
Half the size and weight, welds beautifully, but 12 mths in, it died, but intermittent.
Took it back under warranty, they couldn't find anything wrong with it, 6hrs back to my half built yards, won't work again, got video.
Back to dealer, motherboard replaced this time.
Haven't really used much since, but hope it's fixed.
Did I get one of the few well built Chinese ones and one of the few bad built flash ones?
Don't know, but the Kemppi cost nearly 4x the Chinese one.
Getting a bit off topic, sorry Dave.
Not off topic at all. What would you rather buy, a new fangled inverter with a lot of complicated electronics to potentially go bad and be expensive (or not cost effective) to repair or a time tested transformer that has a reputation for lasting 50 or more years and only needing the odd inexpensive repair? There's a good reason Dialarc's and Idealarc's were extremely popular in schools. They stand up to abuse and are great machines to learn how to weld.
 

Tyler d4c

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Salix Pa
Anybody make a decent welder that does it all - stick, MIG and TIG? Might be in the market for one when I get power hooked up to the garage.
17108063358874948555458813213806.jpg
I've never seen one but then again I'd never pay over 400 bucks for a welding machine either
 

Welder Dave

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Anybody make a decent welder that does it all - stick, MIG and TIG? Might be in the market for one when I get power hooked up to the garage.
I don't know if there is an all in one that has high frequency AC for Tig welding aluminum. If Mig aluminum would be OK, there are a few choices. A lot of people prefer to have separate machines in case something goes wrong with a single machine. When I bought welders for what turned out to be a bad mistake (thankfully a couple friends bought them off me), I bought an AC/DC Tig/stick machine and an all in one Mig machine. Many Dialarc's had spool gun hook ups but the control boxes to run the spool gun got to be too expensive. Sometimes you find them used and they can work off any CC machine. Now most self contained Mig machines have a direct connect spool gun. If you want to run Dual-shield something like a Lincoln 350MP might be a good choice if you aren't doing heavy production. Voltage sensing wire feeders like LN25's can run off CC machines at higher volt settings but the welds don't have the same mechanical properties as they would have on a CV machine. Most of the newer welding machines have a ton of electronics in them that can be great features or the cause of great frustrations. I was talking to a welder repair shop and mentioned the Excel power option on Trailblazers. When it works can save a lot on gas and engine wear but the shop owner said they are very problematic and expensive to fix. I got the feeling it was more trouble than it was worth. Great when you have warranty but after that, yikes!

 
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92U 3406

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I don't know if there is an all in one that has high frequency AC for Tig welding aluminum. If Mig aluminum would be OK, there are a few choices. A lot of people prefer to have separate machines in case something goes wrong with a single machine. When I bought welders for what turned out to be a bad mistake (thankfully a couple friends bought them off me), I bought an AC/DC Tig/stick machine and an all in one Mig machine. Many Dialarc's had spool gun hook ups but the control boxes to run the spool gun got to be too expensive. Sometimes you find them used and they can work off any CC machine. Now most self contained Mig machines have a direct connect spool gun. If you want to run Dual-shield something like a Lincoln 350MP might be a good choice if you aren't doing heavy production. Voltage sensing wire feeders like LN25's can run off CC machines at higher volt settings but the welds don't have the same mechanical properties as they would have on a CV machine. Most of the newer welding machines have a ton of electronics in them that can be great features or the cause of great frustrations. I was talking to a welder repair shop and mentioned the Excel power option on Trailblazers. When it works can save a lot on gas and engine wear but the shop owner said they are very problematic and expensive to fix. I got the feeling it was more trouble than it was worth. Great when you have warranty but after that, yikes!

I don't plan on heavy use. Small repair jobs, maybe fabricate some custom exhaust for my bikes and projects. I have a 110 volt MIG right now and honestly its useless for anything heavier than sheet metal or exhaust pipe. Don't really plan to go much beyond 1/4" plate.
 

Welder Dave

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Then there's less expensive options than the 350MP. I'd have to do some looking to see what's available.
 

Old Growth

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My problem with transformer welders is this,,

Its not the 1950s-1970s anymore. They don't put copper in them anymore. Its copper plated aluminum windings. Duty cycle went to **** after the transition to cheap materials.

And honestly I don't want 600 sq/ft of my shop dedicated to huge antique welders.

Inverter welders are more tolerant to voltage fluctuations and are much smaller and lighter.

In the shop where all I need is a 200amp mig, I like my inverter welder better than my ol MM.

For big stuff I have a trailbalzer and a 12vs extreme.


The only thing I like about my OLD dinosaur mig machines was the ability to run 30+ lb spools.
 

Welder Dave

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What 200 amp Migs were you running that wouldn't take a 12" spool? The Dialarc I'm selling is copper and has a 50% duty cycle at 200 amps. A comparable inverter from Miller is 2-$3000. I preferred a transformer Dimension 452 over an inverter XMT304 for doing x-ray Mig root passes. The 452 had a 100% duty cycle rating while the XMT had a 60% rating. Interestingly I was talking with a long time instructor at the apprentice training facility. He agreed about transformer machines being much better for Mig. He said he could get the arc to do what ever he wanted on the old Hobart transformer machines compared to the new XMT's they got. It's like the arc was too smooth on the XMT's and you need it to be a little coarse. For somebody with a smaller shop or garage that isn't constantly welding but wants a welder that can do some heavier work it doesn't make a big difference between a transformer or inverter. People will argue that a transformer is too big but for a flat top machine like a Dialarc you can put rods, your helmet and tools on top of it. With a smaller inverter you still need a place to put all the other stuff so it's kind of a wash as far as space requirements. Transformers like a Dialarc are proven over decades to be highly reliable and when they do need the odd repair it's not overly expensive. The same can't be said for inverters. Miller machines can be repaired at thousands of approved shops. If you buy an overseas inverter where can you take it and/or how long are you going to be without a machine waiting for parts? Some people don't want to be having to open up their welder and having to try and repair it themselves. There have been some major issues with getting parts and service on some of more common overseas inverters. Getting someone on the phone can be a problem too. For $550cad. it would be hard to find another welder with a similar duty cycle that could match the durability of a Dialarc.
 

Welder Dave

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My problem with transformer welders is this,,

Its not the 1950s-1970s anymore. They don't put copper in them anymore. Its copper plated aluminum windings. Duty cycle went to **** after the transition to cheap materials.

And honestly I don't want 600 sq/ft of my shop dedicated to huge antique welders.

Inverter welders are more tolerant to voltage fluctuations and are much smaller and lighter.

In the shop where all I need is a 200amp mig, I like my inverter welder better than my ol MM.

For big stuff I have a trailbalzer and a 12vs extreme.


The only thing I like about my OLD dinosaur mig machines was the ability to run 30+ lb spools.
You need to state which machines you've had and now have to qualify your statements. Something built up to 2018 is hardly an antique. Some of the best welders ever made are antiques and still in demand. As far as being tolerant to voltage fluctuations transformers have at least 10% line voltage compensation. The welder I'm selling also has capacitors which further help to handle power fluctuations. There have been problems with inverters being damaged by power fluctuations. Inverters are smaller and can be moved around easier but it's still easier to use longer welding cables. If you move the inverter closer, where do you put it, on the floor? Who wants to get on their hands and knee's to change the amps? If you have a cart it takes up a bunch more space. I have a very good transformer welder I'm trying to sell. It's perfectly capable of any type of heavy equipment repair or general fabrication using stick electrodes. It will also do scratch start Tig on steel. As an added bonus it also has AC current if you encounter arc blow burning larger rods or welding around irregular shapes. A high frequency could be hooked up for AC Tig welding as well. You see them used fairly often. A welder repair shop here has an Idealarc 250 for sale for $1200. It requires 575 volts and doesn't come with any cables or power cord. I don't think my price is unreasonable. I'll also include some lessons and delivery within a reasonable distance. Who else does that?
 

Welder Dave

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The last shop I was at had a Dimension 452. Loved that machine. I could burn 1/16th inch flux core all day long without an issue.
I worked at a shop that bought a brand new Dimension 452 for me to use. They had about 6 of them and a Lincoln DC 400. I'd never complain about having a Dimension 452 to do x-ray quality welds whether it was Mig roots, stick or flux-core. Prefer them over XMT's for Mig.
 

92U 3406

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I worked at a shop that bought a brand new Dimension 452 for me to use. They had about 6 of them and a Lincoln DC 400. I'd never complain about having a Dimension 452 to do x-ray quality welds whether it was Mig roots, stick or flux-core. Prefer them over XMT's for Mig.
It was a great machine. We were welding up to 1.5" plate along with hard facing wire. I never welded the heavy stuff, I did more of the smaller stuff.
 

Old Growth

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Dave, I think you have your answer.

Your sure this old dinosaur is so good, then you should sell it with a warranty. I mean, they are so well built you should be confident that you could garrun-tee it. No problem.
 

Welder Dave

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So you can't name what welders you've had and which ones had copper coated aluminum windings with terrible duty cycles? Sounds more like a generic statement to try and support your opinion. Why are you so intent on trying to discount me and one of the best and most popular welders Miller ever made? There's still thousands of them in use. Why are SA200's still sought after by pipeliners? Why do a lot of people prefer older trucks and equipment with less electronics?
I was considering a warranty, that's why I asked. I got some very good replies and things I didn't consider. Obviously if a potential buyer came and tried the welder out they could see it worked properly. I would have no way of knowing what could happen after it was loaded on a buyers truck or trailer. If a buyer took me up on lessons I could certainly see for myself if it was hooked up and working properly. It would depend a little bit on the buyer but I wouldn't have a problem telling the buyer to contact me if something went wrong within a short time after the sale. I could offer to pay up to maybe $200 for repairs in a 50/50 type deal. After the feedback I got, I realized that offering a warranty up front is a bad idea. Some people would try to take advantage and find something wrong in order to get some money back. If say a buyer was looking for a good welder and wasn't sure what they should buy I could offer them a short warranty to ease their mind. A new welder isn't necessarily going to weld any better. Some inverters would weld worse.
 
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