grader noob ?

[tx_swordguy]

Hey Guys. I am a complete noob with graders. I have experience with older tractors and backhoes but no experience with graders. I have taken on the road maint for our community that has about 2.5 miles of outside gravel/dirt roads with some rather short ( 150 YARD) interior roads. outside roads are all straight with about 5, 90 Degree turns that are not too sharp. Turning onto the interior roads are much sharper turns but can be worked with a 30hp tractor and box blade.. We are looking to buy an older grader in the $10-$18k price range. I know that we are not looking at a perfect machine for that price. My thinking is cat 112E, JD 570a, JD 670A. I was thinking those would have good parts prospects and repairs would be less likely to leave us with a stranded machine due to parts availability. We looked at a cat 112e that started and ran. blade movement was easily accomplished at idle but raise the throttle a bit and the levers would jump and it was almost impossible to keep the levers engaged to move the blade while not moving and throttled up.. I did do some minor grading on some soft ground with it at idle and moved the blade just fine like that. I did not try reving it up while moving the grader and blade at the same time so don't know it that was possible or not. I like the hydraulic aspect of the JD graders but also have the hyd pump and numerous hoses that could cost some money to replace when needed. The mechanical aspect of the cat seems less maint hungry but that is an assumption by me. With our budget and the graders I am looking at what is your recommendation, and why? Also any ideas of what to look for would be appreciated.
Mark

 

[mowingman]

Be careful about buying an old Deere grader. Parts availability is becoming an issue. Our local township got rid of their 1976, JD 670, as parts were very hard to get. They said it ran great, but when they needed a part from JD, it could take weeks to get, if available at all from the factory.

 

[tx_swordguy]

Ok so if the JD graders have parts issues are there better alternatives I should be looking at? I am kinda limited with a $15-18k budget. Found some old fiat allis graders but thought parts would be even more difficult to find.

 

[mowingman]

I don't know what older graders cost. I think I would stick with Cat, if possible, or try for a JD that is no older than say the late 80's. Your budget makes it tough.

 

[cuttin edge]

That is the way those old mechanical graders work. They call them knuckle busters. I ran a 14E, and got my hands slapped a few times.

 

[FWD]

Old Cat graders with mechanical controls are fine if everything on the controls are in shape. Those contols are not meant to be feathered, they need to be pushed or pulled and hels into place. If the control system is not in good condition, they will be jumpy.
FWD

 

[tx_swordguy]

So it sounds like the cat might be a decent buy from what I am hearing. I am ok operating it with the controls like they are, just didn't know if that was an indication of trouble costing us a lot of money soon. If it lasts like that I would be fine with it. Like I said it started fine and ran well. I could shift it into all gears and move the blade just fine. When I throttled up sitting still the control levers jumped out and would not stay in place. at idle the blade controls went in and stay held in place just fine even when moving. I need to go take another look and maybe open the rear drive boxes to look at the chains. Anything else your would recommend looking at? I did not see any water in the engine oil but after running it for 30 min it did have some anti freeze dripping out the rad cap area. I don't know if they simply filled it too much or what but the joints looked to be freshly greased so it was probably at least quickly serviced for sale. I really appreciate your input guys!!!!

 

[Silveroddo]

As a guy who has dealt with quite a few 10-18k machines, be picky and find the strongest drivetrain you can. Purely from a cost perspective, if you can find a reasonably maintained Cat 112/12/120 its probably going to be the lowest cost to keep operating. If you find a machine you like but there's something you are unsure of, pay to get it checked out.
Plan on changing all of the fluids and doing a full service on whatever you buy. If its a Cat hopefully the brakes work to begin with, if they don't and that's a feature you intend to utilize be prepared for the associated cost.
I would stay in the bottom half of your budget and no matter what you buy be prepared to invest the remainder of the budget in correcting the deficiencies you will inevitably encounter. Batteries/Tires/Cutting edges , brake work, etc.
What's been taking place for maintenance up to this point?

 

[tx_swordguy]

Hi Silveroddo and others, I just moved to the community and I have been taking care of the roads with a 30 hp tractor and box blade. basically just smoothing the holes out until the next rain. About 4 yrs ago they had some gravel brought in and spread by an excavator dragging a homemade harrow. So basically no maintenance. I have agreed to take it on with the stipulation of not using a spoon to do the job of a shovel if you catch my meaning. We eed to cut a ditch along one road probably 50yards or so and cleaning the drain ditches along other roads. The brakes on the Cat 112 we looked at are not working but we are mostly flat roads with only one slight hill. I am ok using the blade to stop if needed knowing that it will not be run on pavement. Most members are not wanting a big grader but want a small unit that can be operated by many people (costing MUCH more than our budget). Problem is I am the only one working the roads .THe tractor and box blade we have anyone can operate and still I am the only one doing the work on the roads. The grader we looked at needs 2 tires so I know that would be a cost going into it. You guys are talking me into the cat 112 more and more. I think I will go take a second look at it ( couple hrs away). I really appreciate any and all advice. I know that a hydraulic grader will probably cost a min of 200 plus in hoses soon after we would purchase and maybe that much in lost oil when a hose breaks. That was a concern as well. THanks again

 

[JaredV]

If I was in your position, I would want to do all the grading myself or at least share it with one guy I could trust to be on the same page. Partly because the machine will be better taken care of with one operator knowing what needs to be taken care of or kept an eye on. Also, everyone has their own style of grading and if one operator does it, the road will stay in shape longer. I grade logging roads that are shared by different landowners and some guys don't put much, if any crown on. So when I come along and pull a crown up, the center of the road is soft for a while. If I can grade it the next time, it does a lot better but if the next guy that comes along likes to grade it flatter, he's just undone my work. Once you get it in shape and keep it there, it's better all around. I have one road that I've been the only one to grade it for a few years and its much faster and easier to grade and the results are much better. Also if your roads have certain spots that require different grading techniques, one guy will be more familiar with what needs to be done. My vote is for the bigger machine that you can cover more ground by yourself with. After you get used to the grader, you'll wonder how you ever managed with the box blade.

 

[JaredV]

Another thought- how wide are your roads? If you can, get a machine with a moldboard length such that you can make one cutting pass on each side of the road cutting the whole surface so you don't have to take time to make a second round. Also weight is your friend. If the smaller hydraulic type of machine being talked about is something along the lines of the machines that pavers use like a Leeboy or Basic, the smaller blade and lighter weight will be a problem unless you have one-lane roads.

 

[Welder Dave]

Never want to have multiple users on a complex machine like a grader. You will be constantly spending money to fix it and it will be down when you need it the most. A Champion or Volvo might be worth looking at. They are hydraulic but generally you get a lot more grader for the money. A $15,000 Champion is probably a $35-$40,000 Cat in comparison. Changing hyd. hoses is cheaper and easier than repairing old gearboxes. There are places like Jade Equipment that have a lot of parts and parts machines to take parts off. I bought a 1986 730A for $15,000cad. It needed a couple rear tires that I could have bought imports for $750ea. but happened to come across 4 new radial tires at an auction. The tires had rims and I discovered they were foam filled so I had adaptors made to fit the rims on the grader. They are working great. A similar machine in the US would be under $10,000. For $15,000us you could get a fairly nice Champion with a Cummins engine 1984 and newer. The older ones mostly had 2 stroke Detroits but some had Allis Chalmers engines that aren't desirable at all. Mine has a Cummins 8.3 and is very quiet. You can actually hear the radio without having to crank it to the max. Big roomy cab too and I think a good heater but haven't used it much in the cold yet. It makes short work of a 1/4 mile driveway that took a couple hours with a skid steer and snow bucket. One pass clears it but I push the windrow over further on the way back. 15 minutes at the most.

 

[mowingman]

I see your location is in Gainesville, Tx. Go over to Nocona and check out what might be available at "Rays Used Equipment". Not only is it a good source for parts for older machines, but they normally have some good used graders there for sale. I bought a lot of stuff there back in the 90's. I think they get/got a lot of their graders from county auctions, and they were in pretty nice condition.

 

[tx_swordguy]

Thanks for the help guys ! Mowingman I recently moved to east Texas by Tyler so unfortunately Naconna is now 3+hrs