Hard to start. White smoke.

[Old Syko]

Takeuchi TL 140 with 4JG1T Isuzu engine has been hard to start since I got it. I've since had the injectors rebuilt by a qualified local outfit. I replaced the heaters at the same time. I've since replaced the injector pump with a new OEM pump, adjusted the valves, replaced the fuel hoses and the fuel pump and the fuel solenoid. When I did the injectors I checked compression which was fine. The only thing that has made a difference was the injector pump. A buddy of mine has a couple of these with less hours and mine will outperform his since the injector pump replacement but it can still be hard to start and blow white smoke for a couple minutes. What am I missing?

 

[Tyler d4c]

Timing of the injection

 

[Old Syko]

Timing of the injection

Timing is by the book. It's losing prime over a period of time. If I bleed it after it sets for a few days it starts easy and runs smooth from the beginning. If I let it set for 2 or 3 days it starts and dies immediately then has to be cranked for a bit to go again and when it does start it only runs on 2 or 3 cylinders for a short period of time before it straightens out but still blows white smoke for a minute or more. Once it clears up it runs great?????

 

[HarleyHappy]

Well, you’re sucking air from somewhere. Some machines are just hard to start. My Kubota V2203 likes the glow plugs if it’s below 60 degrees.
My Case 580 SE can be on and off, really doesn’t like winter fuel blend.
My other Kubota, doesn’t care what temperature, starts right up.
Think a lot of it has to do with the amount of Either used, throughout its life.
Had a Ford 7.3 that wouldn't start without either, was addicted to the stuff.

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

How long is the glow plug lamp staying lit, or is it coming on at all?

Spec for a lot of the Taki's was to not pre-heat unless the coolant temp showed 32deg F or less.

 

[Old Syko]

Well, you’re sucking air from somewhere. Some machines are just hard to start. My Kubota V2203 likes the glow plugs if it’s below 60 degrees.
My Case 580 SE can be on and off, really doesn’t like winter fuel blend.
My other Kubota, doesn’t care what temperature, starts right up.
Think a lot of it has to do with the amount of Either used, throughout its life.
Had a Ford 7.3 that wouldn't start without either, was addicted to the stuff.

Yep it's sucking alright but I won't give up until I find out why.

My Kubota needs the glow plugs ignited shortly even if it's 100 degrees outside or 10 below 0 but it fires right up and is ready to go.

My Ford 6.7 fires right up no matter the temp and all you have to do is look at it and it knows you're ready to go.

How long is the glow plug lamp staying lit, or is it coming on at all?

Spec for a lot of the Taki's was to not pre-heat unless the coolant temp showed 32deg F or less.

I hit the plug switch and it lights up for I'm guessing 4 to 5 seconds. I get the feeling it needs the plugs lit up no matter the temp. Below 32 I cycle it twice and the second time it will disengage in about 2 seconds but it does make a difference.

 

[Welder Dave]

Some engines need the glow plugs for all initial starts no matter how warm the temperature is. Kubota's with indirect injection are known for it but I don't think that's your issue. You have a filter, fuel line or fitting with a slight leak and are losing prime. What do you have for filters and is there a check valve to prevent fuel from draining back? Some have installed electric fuel pumps to give positive pressure to the injection pump if nothing can be found to cause the loss of prime. On my Cummins 8.3 a shorter filter solved the loss of prime problem. It can be hard to find tiny air leaks. Have you tried spraying soapy water on all the fuel system to look for leaks? Have also heard of the O-ring on fuel filters not giving a proper seal.

 

[Simon C]

Wondering if the glow plugs are not staying on long enough or how many amps did each and every one draw. Were they clamp metered for current to ensure each one works. Have you tried direct power to them to see if it makes a difference. These things need to be ruled out.
Simon C

 

[DustAndRay]

The fact that it starts easy after bleeding but gets worse the longer it sits makes me wonder about the return side of the fuel system.
Try pinching off the return line after shutdown and let it sit for a few days. If it starts noticeably better, I'd start chasing the return hoses, banjo washers, and leak-off fittings. Hope it helps!

 

[HarleyHappy]

On my machines with glow plugs, I put a crappy Amazon voltage gauge.
This is to let me know batteries condition and to specifically look for volts draw, when glow plugs are activated.
This helps know that they are all working and their health.
I kinda memorize the draw and keep an eye on it, for possible problems.

 

[Tenwheeler]

On my machines with glow plugs, I put a crappy Amazon voltage gauge.
This is to let me know batteries condition and to specifically look for volts draw, when glow plugs are activated.
This helps know that they are all working and their health.
I kinda memorize the draw and keep an eye on it, for possible problems.

That is cool! Some machines I worked on have glow plug test procedure using an ohm meter. This is the range and they are good or bad. But what do you do when it still will not cold start. Jumper cables hooked up to a battery and a glow plug. Good ones usually start to turn orange in 3 - 5 seconds. Some do not but still ohm out.

 

[Simon C]

That is cool! Some machines I worked on have glow plug test procedure using an ohm meter. This is the range and they are good or bad. But what do you do when it still will not cold start. Jumper cables hooked up to a battery and a glow plug. Good ones usually start to turn orange in 3 - 5 seconds. Some do not but still ohm out.

An OHM test is not quite as accuate as live power to them with the amount of current measured with a micro clamp meter. Then if one is weak it will be instantly visible on the meter.
Simon C

 

[Old Syko]

I have literally repaired or replaced the complete fuel system including the addition of a one way valve. The only exceptions are the filter head and the separator but even the seals have been replaced on them. I spoke to a guy this morning who told me he went through the same things on one when it was new and he ended up changing the separator even though he could find nothing wrong with it but it cured the problem. He's going to pick me up a replacement and we'll see if that matters. I can't imagine but I'm gonna give it a try.

 

[HarleyHappy]

That is cool! Some machines I worked on have glow plug test procedure using an ohm meter. This is the range and they are good or bad. But what do you do when it still will not cold start. Jumper cables hooked up to a battery and a glow plug. Good ones usually start to turn orange in 3 - 5 seconds. Some do not but still ohm out.

If I can get the glow plugs out, I just hit wire them from the battery and if they don’t get red hot in 3 to 4 seconds, I replace them.
The 6 dollar volt meter isn’t a perfect idea, it just takes a 1/2 hour to install and gives me an idea of what’s going on.
I have about a 50/50% on OHMing out glow plugs. Sometimes they test good but don’t work.
I think an amneter gauge would work better but I think the cheap volt meter works fine.
My Kubota used to have a glow plug light but has not worked for about 15 years.
Thats what gave me the idea for m other machines.
Thinking of putting a hot start on my Case 580 SE for next winter.

 

[robertse]

Some Isuzu engines has a screen on the banjo fittings on either the fuel pump or the lift pump or sometimes the hand primer pump.
Check that this screen is not plugged up.