Help Me Decide on New Dozer

[Welder Dave]

I saw a sign in a store one time and gave it to my dad. "A salesman's job starts when the customer says no." My dad bent over backwards for his customers and made service a priority. He didn't not get the sale very often. Excellent service is not that common anymore.

 

[Simon C]

I saw a sign in a store one time and gave it to my dad. "A salesman's job starts when the customer says no." My dad bent over backwards for his customers and made service a priority. He didn't not get the sale very often. Excellent service is not that common anymore.

Problem now is that in the North West Corner of B.C is a tremendous amount of mining startups and exploration. Look up Skeena Gold and if you watch some of their news, they were building the mill for a mine before they even had the environmntal approval. They will be the second highest grade open pit gold mine in the World and are the former Eskay Creek mine that was the highest grade gold mine in the world till it closed around year 2003 or so.
They have all new Komatsu Haul trucks and excavators along with other equipment. They are already buliding roads and stripping areas for mining and started stockpiling ore for when the mill starts. They received the final environmental approval on Feb. 3rd this year. I bought some of their stocks a while back.

What does this have to do with Martin70 deciding on a Dozer?

These big companies are sending their best of the best mechanics to these mine sites to keep the new stuff full of wiring problems running. Their is multiple other large projects in the works along with all the Placer mining going on in Yukon, which quite a few have bought newer gear and will pay no matter what it costs to get it going.
If it costs $3000 for a guy to do so diagnostics, and another $10000 to come and change the faulty parts they will pay it at $5000 US per ounce of gold.
The price of and profit on lumber is in a different realm than these gold mining operations.

These service managers get directions from the owners of the businesses about who to make priority on a daily basis as they do not want to have any slow down on their monthly income from these mines.

Small companies will get serviced when they have time on their schedule, not yours.
I met the owner of a medium Company in Red Deer that had 6 pieces of equipment that Finning was suppose to service but in 2010- 2015 they were focused on McMurray rebuilds and they could not come to his place in a long time. He sold every piece and bought from Deere as they have a very small footprint in the Oil Sands. He said he did not regret his decision as equipment down for too long can kill a company.

Hope you have a good look at the newest Komatsu Wiring in the new stuff, as I have a full schematic on a 2010 Komatsu 420 wheel loader, and will say that it is extremely complex and very few guys around other than the dealer that can make their way around it.

I will say that the Caterpillar schematics are better or easier in my opinion, and machines before DPF filters and DEF with rebuilt components and new harnesses offer as good of reliability as some of the newest with too much electronic components.

Even if you buy with warranty you will be serviced when they have time, and only in their shop unless if you have special contract.
Good dealership mechanics like to work in warm company or mine shops when it is minus 30-50c outside.

Hope that helps you in making a wise choice.

Simon C

 

[Martin70]

Problem now is that in the North West Corner of B.C is a tremendous amount of mining startups and exploration. Look up Skeena Gold and if you watch some of their news, they were building the mill for a mine before they even had the environmntal approval. They will be the second highest grade open pit gold mine in the World and are the former Eskay Creek mine that was the highest grade gold mine in the world till it closed around year 2003 or so.
They have all new Komatsu Haul trucks and excavators along with other equipment. They are already buliding roads and stripping areas for mining and started stockpiling ore for when the mill starts. They received the final environmental approval on Feb. 3rd this year. I bought some of their stocks a while back.

What does this have to do with Martin70 deciding on a Dozer?

These big companies are sending their best of the best mechanics to these mine sites to keep the new stuff full of wiring problems running. Their is multiple other large projects in the works along with all the Placer mining going on in Yukon, which quite a few have bought newer gear and will pay no matter what it costs to get it going.
If it costs $3000 for a guy to do so diagnostics, and another $10000 to come and change the faulty parts they will pay it at $5000 US per ounce of gold.
The price of and profit on lumber is in a different realm than these gold mining operations.

These service managers get directions from the owners of the businesses about who to make priority on a daily basis as they do not want to have any slow down on their monthly income from these mines.

Small companies will get serviced when they have time on their schedule, not yours.
I met the owner of a medium Company in Red Deer that had 6 pieces of equipment that Finning was suppose to service but in 2010- 2015 they were focused on McMurray rebuilds and they could not come to his place in a long time. He sold every piece and bought from Deere as they have a very small footprint in the Oil Sands. He said he did not regret his decision as equipment down for too long can kill a company.

Hope you have a good look at the newest Komatsu Wiring in the new stuff, as I have a full schematic on a 2010 Komatsu 420 wheel loader, and will say that it is extremely complex and very few guys around other than the dealer that can make their way around it.

I will say that the Caterpillar schematics are better or easier in my opinion, and machines before DPF filters and DEF with rebuilt components and new harnesses offer as good of reliability as some of the newest with too much electronic components.

Even if you buy with warranty you will be serviced when they have time, and only in their shop unless if you have special contract.
Good dealership mechanics like to work in warm company or mine shops when it is minus 30-50c outside.

Hope that helps you in making a wise choice.

Simon C

I'm very fortunate to not have logged the past 9 winters.
My trucks run all winter, but not any equipment, except for a couple of farm tractors.
At minus 25 C, at my house, my trucks are also parked. It may be minus 30 C when they get to the bush, so yes technically they haul at -30. This winter, there was only 2 days trucks were scheduled to go, and didn't due to cold.
Mines, many hundreds of kms away, shouldn't be having anything more than minimal effect on dealers here as well.
This area is mostly logging, so dealers should be focusing on that, their main customer base. But sadly, many seem to have lost sight, of who is their bread and butter.

 

[Welder Dave]

My former neighbour wasn't a Cat fan and had a few JD track loaders for demolition. He got ticked off because the JD dealer couldn't send out a mechanic for 3 days to fix one his loaders. I think it needed a water pump. He expected them to drop everything and come out right away to fix his machines. I think it's unrealistic to think a dealer should be on call to rush out to fix your equipment. They have other customers and only so many field mechanics. The neighbour went to Komatsu for excavators. I was talking to the service manager at the JD dealership when I had a 355D loader and mentioned my neighbour. He said they had to bug him for month's to remove an 855 loader sitting in their yard used as a parts machine.

 

[Martin70]

3 days isn't bad, but 3 months just to get a price is.

 

[Welder Dave]

It's the classic... An emergency on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. If you want instant service that's why firms have their own mechanics or fix things themselves. It's the whole reason behind the right to repair lawsuit. Everybody thinks their problem is the highest priority but in reality it's what the dealer or field mechanic thinks is the highest priority.

 

[Simon C]

^^^^ Agreed. The businesses biggest clients will get serviced first, and goes down in order of income from the customers per year. I worked for an outfit with a big 3412 Generator that was essential for it to run in case of power outage. It was way behind in maintenance and had not had a hired mechanic for 10 years until I showed up. I told the owner if he had a prolonged power outage and the if the generator went down, he would be last on their priority to get going. His wallet opened for 1 week of work to get a lot of problems dealt with. He finally realized that if it went down he was going to lose a lot of his Tree Nursery.
Harder to find good independants if we only call once a year , same deal. Mechanics cost are crazy today also, just go into a Snap On Truck or start buying diagnostic equipment and $10000 does not go too far.
Simon C

 

[HarleyHappy]

Everyone thinks they are a priority but seldom few put any maintenance or work in. It’s always a fire, just some organizations have more fires than others, for a reason.

 

[nicky 68a]

Excellent and informative post by Simon C.

 

[nicky 68a]

It’s easy for me to forget that the dealer is actually a business and goes with the money.
They’d be irresponsible and stupid not to.
Fair enough.

 

[Welder Dave]

I think in my neighbours case he figured it was a more simple repair so would be easier and faster to do. It doesn't work that way and you never know what else you might find that needs fixing.

 

[HarleyHappy]

What some upper crusties don’t seem to understand.
When you are spending as much money on a machine as a house costs, past and present relationships with the supporting dealer, has as much if not more sway, than the initial cost of the machine.
I worked for a company that got screwed by Cat one time and not only did they not make it right, they ended up in court and my boss had me drop off said machine outside their gate on a Saturday morning.
Now, he’s got over 100 pieces of equipment and the only Cats around, are either proprietary machines or the ones that go “meow”.

 

[Martin70]

What some upper crusties don’t seem to understand.
When you are spending as much money on a machine as a house costs, past and present relationships with the supporting dealer, has as much if not more sway, than the initial cost of the machine.
I worked for a company that got screwed by Cat one time and not only did they not make it right, they ended up in court and my boss had me drop off said machine outside their gate on a Saturday morning.
Now, he’s got over 100 pieces of equipment and the only Cats around, are either proprietary machines or the ones that go “meow”.

Also, screw someone over, and they'll tell everyone they know, and those people will tell people, etc.

But maybe even more than that, others see what people are using, especially when moving from job to job, and ask why they chose Brand XYZ. If you see mostly Komatsu, Link Belt, or whatever in an area, you also start thinking to yourself, gee that's interesting. Over time, it spreads, and that brand starts to dominate in an area.

As I mentioned before, this area was Cat land, not anymore.

 

[BC Placer gold]

I have noticed a fair bit of Link-Belt machinery in the bush…

 

[Mquinista]

I don´t know about there, but in my planet CAT is king , as as spares are readily available from aftermarket.
And we do like old iron specially machinery with minimal electronics, or at least proven electronics that are stand alone controlers, not that crap common bus comunications network.
Komatsu are the 2nd most popular but spares are scarse and expensive, despite u can get hold of pretty much everithing.

Back to the thread, i understood ppl got used to the number D8H, at least in north america and forgot that today a D8 series is almost twice as heavy. Nevertheless the best D8 i have seen or work with were the R´s. Here in my planet the D6D was the king, many contractors still use them, after several rebuilds.

I used to work with a 155-2 and 3 AX some 20 years ago, the 3 very compact and pleasure to work dozer. but as mentioned previously in my planet we don´t even consider a such size machine for clearing work.
Clearing work is done with excavators on the 20 to 30 ton size and small dozers like d6´s. or D65/85.

 

[Martin70]

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone, I decided to order a Komatsu.

 

[BC Placer gold]

What size did you settle on?

 

[Martin70]

A 155, cost was $1,155,000 pre tax, coincidence ?

 

[Simon C]

A 155, cost was $1,155,000 pre tax, coincidence ?

Now I know why the owner of the business where I built a D155A-1 engine for 2 years ago was okay with the very expensive engine built with 5 engines worth of parts, from grenaded engines plus all the new parts to have enough to build one. He diod not want to commit to any big payments and most of his work has dried up.
Simon C