Hitach zx160 lc3

[Knuckleduster]

Hi all, I work as a volunteer for an organisation that is restoring sections of the internal waterways of the U.K. We are charity based so money is always tight. Our large excavator has been driving me literally up the wall of late. Throttle cable was replaced due to it being shredded and nearly broken. 2 hours to get it out and more to refit with a lot of very cross words. Put the machine back to work holding a piling hammer up and moving it from one piling to another. While piling using an air compressor the machine is shut down. Then the fun started--engine would not restart until bled. Periodically it would shut down with the primer button having popped and not staying locked down. Got a new primer pump complete BUT it is handed the wrong way with the primer and output port swapped. Took primer off and transferred to old pump body and refitted. Tank emptied--cleaned out,new fuel line, new filter.Primed and engine ran immediately. When its worked for a while the engine will bog down and can stall--fires up virtually immediately. The dam thing will track onto the bund in the canal to start work but as soon as she is warm it will bog down and stall the engine when we try to walk her off the bund or do too much with the boom. I have checked all the inline filters I can find--some are missing but to no avail. going to try to cobble together an alternative outlet and fit the new wrong handed lift pump to see if the pump is the source of my woes. I`m new to land based walking excavators but used to marine engines fitted to our water based dredgers that are basically an excavator in a boat--any thoughts would really be appreciated before I drive this one into the canal and sink it for good.
Best wishes Gerry

 

[Diesel Dave]

ZX160LC-3 or ZX160LC ?

 

[Knuckleduster]

I believe its a LC3. What ever we have looked at has always been a pain to get at. Have Jap engineers got multi-articulate very slim fingers? I`m used to climbing around boat engines and water based excavators which can be a challenge but this machine takes the buscuit for being a swine to work on. Its fitted with an Isuzu diesel and throttle is controlled by a stepper motor and a push-pull cable which likewise is a swine to change--thrown the Japanese swear book versions 1 and 2 in the canal--Gerry

 

[Diesel Dave]

Stepping motor and cable sounds like a ZX160 .
Do you have a water separator filter ? Check for a banjo bolt with an internal filter at the water separator housing fittings.

 

[Knuckleduster]

Hi Dave , thanks for getting back to me. I wasn`t sure which model as it was owned by a demolition company before and both size panels are a little scraped and a few dents. Yes it has a water seperator and the banjo bole from the lift pump to separator has a new filter in it. This was supplied with the new wrong lift pump. As we could`nt fit the new lift pump, swapped the primer over and fitted the old pump back on. Tomorrow we are going to fit the new pump with altered piping and see what happens. I have seen a lot of posts regarding the angle sensor which is somewhere on the main hydralic pump and will be checking that while my mate rips out the bulkhead again and puts the new pump in. He like me has come to hate this machine. Why can`t they breakdown on a nice concrete slab and not knee deep in field and canal mud.--Gerry

 

[Diesel Dave]

Hi Dave , thanks for getting back to me. I wasn`t sure which model as it was owned by a demolition company before and both size panels are a little scraped and a few dents. Yes it has a water seperator and the banjo bole from the lift pump to separator has a new filter in it. This was supplied with the new wrong lift pump. As we could`nt fit the new lift pump, swapped the primer over and fitted the old pump back on. Tomorrow we are going to fit the new pump with altered piping and see what happens. I have seen a lot of posts regarding the angle sensor which is somewhere on the main hydralic pump and will be checking that while my mate rips out the bulkhead again and puts the new pump in. He like me has come to hate this machine. Why can`t they breakdown on a nice concrete slab and not knee deep in field and canal mud.--Gerry

Angle sensor ?, I don’t know of a hydraulic pump angle sensor on ZX160 or a ZX160-3 .
Can you post the machine serial number or if it is not available , a picture of the monitor/ instrument panel. It would be good to try and figure out what model the machine actually is.

 

[Knuckleduster]

Will do. I`m going to the machine tomorrow to do battle once more. One thing I hadn`t realised is that there is a disposable filter in the water separator--as Ive said I`m more used to boat based excavators.None of our 3 workboats have a disposable filter in the separators and neither does my 35 yr old narrowboat running a Mitsibushi marine version of a K3 badged Vetus I will take photos and attach tomorrow when I get home. We have a film crew tomorrow turning up to film us dredging the canal--there will be a stink in the air when we drag the muck up.--great laugh

 

[Knuckleduster]

Hi Dave, just come back from playing with this machine. Bear in mind its belting down with rain and the field edge where she is parked by the side of the canal is knee deep in mud. Had a good look over machine and cleaned off some of the mud etc on the battery side of the machine and it is def a ZAXIS 160LC. I cannot find a chassis plate at all. Now as I hadnt got a driver I got into cab and fired up the engine--started easily and ran well. Tracked the digger up the field for about 20 ft then reversed her back to where she was parked--operated boom up and down many times and all seemed well, untill I let her get up to normal Temp--midway on guage, then the fun started. Tracking or as we call it walking her up the same 20ft and back again the machine would bog down to the point of stall. Similar when operating boom. I do not have a land based digger "ticket" so normally I have a driver with me.Not today. I removed the water separator and found it full of crap--sand. Spoke to our guyenor and was told that some 2 legged vermin(youths) had broken into our compound during the last long school holidays and interfered with the diggers and dumpers--sand in the tank. This I was totally unaware of. We have to have a "ticket" for the machine to operate on the waterway banks etc to say you are safe to operate and are insured. I don`t as yet possess the ticket for this machine but as only my felow mechanic was about we considered it safe to operate. Cleaned out the separator with petrol and refitted to machine--cold runs o,k, hot bogs down. I have some pics if you need them.We decided that is was unwise to strip the machine in the rain and left it as a runner until we get back to it hopefully not raining.Bumped into the BBC filming our guys dredging on the way back to the marina

 

[Diesel Dave]

Let us know the results after the new fuel primer pump is installed.

 

[Knuckleduster]

Hi Dave, sorry for the delay getting back. Been busy with a couple of groups that want one of our dredgers to buy from us and the outboard on the crane boat had got damaged, so spent some time there over weekend sorting out problems. Went to machine today with my co sufferer and between us changed the pump and took out the solid pipes and converted over to flexible fuel pipes so that we could fit the replacement pump which had outlets different to the original.ran machine up,started on the button but still bogged down when asked to work.Engine would labour and stall. Same results when excavator asked to walk or shoud I say paddle as we have had torrential rain and the field at the side of the canal is really muddy.We are now sure that the fuel system is clean but still have this bogging down problem. How does the machine know when to increase pressure to the hydraulics when asked to work. The engine revs stay constant untill the the stall so I take it there is too much load on it when asked to work. There must be some sort of sensor that deals with that. I understand that the ecu`s can have problems with bad connections etc. We were so hacked off with it today that there was talk of driving it into the canal and sinking it for good. We have had similar problems with one of our hydraulic propelled dredgers but didn`t have to deal with an ecu--good old mechanical system--moving levers etc.

 

[Diesel Dave]

From your descriptions it sounds like the engine is stalling relatively easily while just tracking or just raising the boom. You have mentioned a couple times that the issue occurs most often when the machine is warmed up.
I suspect the rack in the fuel injection pump is sticking.
I would suggest to perform a turbo boost test.
I will try and find a test spec.

 

[Knuckleduster]

When we ran her up today to turn thr cab so that access to the top didn`t have us wading in thick mud, the engine didn`t sound happy. running poorly and after we let her idle for a few mins the exhaust note changed and was back to normal. Turned the boom around and it struggled. Anyway pulled the pump and fitted new one. Engine fired up properly settled down into a steady tickover--accelerated under throttle control smoothly BUT as soon as we tracked her it bogged down and tried to stall, likewise when we played about with the boom. Only managed to turn it back around by slowly operating sticks. Engine still cold. I now have the manual--been hunting for it amongst the various manuals at the marina site where we are based--found it at home buried (like the machine should be) under a pile of engine manuals for the various pieces of plant and boats we possess. Was Going to access the self test diag that is on the machine on Thursday but the weather here is about to turn nasty again with gales and even more heavy rain forecast for the next few days. Our safety protocols forbid us to lone work so I have to tie up with another person to trudge up the canal for half a mile to get to where the machine sits , not normally a problem but with gales and heavy rain forecast its not safe as the canal is tree lined and during gales we have a lot of fallers.

 

[Simon C]

Have you checked all the battery and ground connections. All systems need good connections. Have you tried running the unit off of a Diesel Jerry can straight into first filter. Have the filter connections been blown out in case of a blockage. As Diesel Dave said, is there good boost pressure. Does it have a banjo fitting with internal screen as previously mentioned.
Some simple things to check out.
Simon C

 

[Knuckleduster]

thanks for the reply.
Tank cleaned--new fuel hose from tank--new lift pump fitted and pipes modded to take into account of connections wrong handed.--water separator cleaned out--full of crap.new fuel filter fitted. the new pump came with one internal screen. all others missing anyway. There was a lot of crap in the tank but put that down to the change from red diesel to standard fuel station diesel. Both of our land based diggers have to be run on "white" diesel now due to changes bought about by Government. Our 3 boat based diggers can carry on running on red diesel which carries a lower fuel duty and are running correctly Have come across boaters who have run for many years on red diesel who have changed to "white" diesel for some reason which is available from all filling stations and have had all sorts of running problems with engines after a while using white diesel. There appears to be a sediment in boats fuel tanks that had become dislodged after the switch over. Narrowboat tanks are built into the vessel at manufacture--mine is 33 years old and runs like a charm with about 4000 hours on the clock--marinised Mitsubishi K3 dunper engine--will go on for ever and would run on any old crap.Was going back to digger tomorrow but storms,violent rain and high winds are predicted tomorrow for a day or two and it would be too dangerous to even get to the machine.
Was going to go through all the supplys,earths and as far as I can test every sensor supply and earth now Ive found the manual--most sensors supply is 5v, so dodgy connections/rust etc will play havoc with what, if anything, gets back to ecu to control the machine.--Gerry

 

[Simon C]

Wondering if there is a speed sensor or crank sensor that is faulty, that if the computer cant tell how fast motor is turning will not deliver fuel. If there was it would put only idle fuel into engine.
Must be a location to hook up a scanner on this unit if it has a ECU. Mmaybe there are some active and stored codes.
Simon C

 

[Knuckleduster]

Hi Simon, engine will rev up and varies when diff work modes selected. Been trawling through the service manual and there is inboard diagnostics fitted so i have a start there.From what i can gather from manual all fault codes are reset as soon as you power down machine. I may have access to the pc version of DrEX diagnostic software if I need to get into it further if I can find an old pc running XP. I run a VW Tiguan that was low mileage when I bought it and had all sorts of trouble with the DPF and sensors. Bought the after market software for PC and sorted out the problems--car was used as a school run motor, so was clogged up--Binned the DPF--fitted new one + sensors and after getting a tuning company to rid the car of the emmissions FIX that Vw put on, car now runs properly and is running factory original software--best money I ever spent, so Im a fan of diagnostic software--nothing beats me where engines are cincerned even if the silly manufacturers put a glorified pc on it. Cant get there tomorrow or for a few days as weather is bad with heavy rain and gale force winds--it is too dangerous to even get to the machine.Diesel Dave has suggested to take a look at the turbo boost pressure

 

[Knuckleduster]

Hi all, sorry I haven`t been back sooner, had to travel down country to a place called Cornwall which is on the most south western tip of UK to sort out problems with my father in law who now resides in a care home--spent 3 days cussing his bank who would not change his address to the care home unless \i took him in person to the nearest branch--he is 93 wheel chair bound and the weather was attrocious.. Been back to the machine today, armed to the teeth with multimeters etc and checked the pump sensors for 5v,earth and varying output when operating machine--found all functioning--was convinced it was sensors.
Anyway thought I would fire up onboard diagnostics--not fitted to my machine so was stumped.Looking at the hydraulic pump side of machine I noticed that there is an odd abs box attached to the stepper motor case held on by cable ties. So me being nosey I opend box which dumped the water that had made it way in all up my sleeve. Inside box was 2 x 24 v relays--one was corroded so badly when ioened up, nothing would move.Other one looked o.k. and measured alright on meter. These relays are fitted inline to the servo solenoids of which there are 3, with 2 pairs of black control wires coming from tthe loom to trigger them. Clearly a bodge done at sometime in the digger`s past. two of the solenoids (I think that is waht they are) are fitted on a common casting fitted to the rear left hand side of the compartment and One sits on its own in front ot that casting (square casting with 3 pipes labelled 1.2.3.) I haven`t a clue what these 2 castings are--both chassis/frame mounted with several pipes. I presume that both are solenoids to do with the pump.Pump is mounted on the opposite side of the campartment with a rectangular casting on top and 2 sensers bolted into the casting directly opposite each other and a further 2 sensors mounted lower on pipes going into the casting. This set up is completely different to my manual but following fault finding tree I presume these are pump 1 and 2 sensors. The cables going in and out of the abs box make me believe that something was mounted there before and this was a bush fix. The in and out cables follow the same wiring colours/thickness which lead me to believe that the cables are original The manual I have is supposed to be for a ZX160lc and 180 lc. It has a stepper motor and cable controlled throttle. Engine (Isuzu) runs as sweet as sugar but bogs down and can stall when machine is warm when asked to work in any mode. O.K when cold.
Desperate to get this working again as we are sheet piling sections of the canal to stop water leaks and 2 of our more energetic guys where swinging 14lb sledge hammers to bang these piles it and looking at me in disgust--never mind the racket they were kicking up doing it the "OLD" way. We usually use air powered piling hammer running from a large compressor and the digger is used to shift the pling hammer from one sheet to another anf to stop the hammer falling off into the canal--which has happened.
The manual I have is def wrong one but at a loss to identify correct one. Can`t find an ID plate and the control panel just has 2 meters for fuel and temp 3 0r 4 pish buttons and work mode select with 4 leds and one button marked "work mode". Key switch on seperate panel to right with HP,E,AI mode push buttons and speed control knob--all of which seem to work normally. Think I will change my name to Desperate Dan.

 

[Diesel Dave]

Hey Dan, does the monitor/ switch panel look like the one in the screenshot below ?.
.

 

[Knuckleduster]

Hi Thanks for getting back so soon. Yes the panel looks exactly like the one in the screenshot.

 

[Diesel Dave]

So that is an EX160-5 .