How deep would you dig with a 200 hoe?

[JoshA]

Trying to plan out a job and would like a second opinion.

Having to excavate a hole 60 feet long by 53 feet wide to a depth of 13.5 feet. I'm thinking it would be best to bench down anywhere from 3-6 feet, if using a 200 size machine.

For a short section (20 feet) the dig will be to a depth of 16.5 feet.

Your opinion would be appreciated. There will be a person in the hole below me checking the dirt, and it will require safe slopes, not just a blind borrow hole.

Thanks,

 

[lantraxco]

Fairly flat site at present? What are you hauling the spoils with? Seems to me you could take about half at a time as you say, cut a small ramp for your haul machines on the second pass. Should go pretty quick depending on the soil type. Take longer if you have to flip it but still doable.

 

[JoshA]

Fairly flat site at present? What are you hauling the spoils with? Seems to me you could take about half at a time as you say, cut a small ramp for your haul machines on the second pass. Should go pretty quick depending on the soil type. Take longer if you have to flip it but still doable.

Yes, flat site at present.

Planning to haul with tandems. Was wondering if practical to do a double cut, casting up to a hoe that loads?

Don't believe I can drive the trucks by, so would need to back in to me if using a single hoe.

 

[DoyleX]

What type of material sand or clay or rock? Flowing sand will be a b1tCh at 16'. Stable material you can get the trucks over? Split it. 6-8' cut each pass... ramp out.

 

[tkoden]

Just my opinion but, we have a 2700q linkbelt 43k lbs but something that size we would rent a big machine. The speed and efficiency of a 90k to 110k lb machine would be well worth the rent.

 

[td25c]

We would attack that job with a 20 ton excavator & skid loader combo . My first concern would be getting the hole / basement dug out & pile spoils on each side of the project .

Then load out the trucks off the spoil piles on top . Kind of a two stage deal but it works better for the truck drivers many times if weather or soil conditions take a turn for the worse .

 

[CM1995]

In a perfect world - trucks being able to be loaded straight out of the cut - I would set up the hoe on the left side of the cut, excavate the total depth and load into trucks on the right side. Cut the slope back for safety reasons and proceed across the cut, loading trucks and only handling the material once.

Once you get to the end of the excavation, cut the wall straight down so you can load directly into the trucks. Move over, cut the slope and load directly into trucks. Double handling material eats into the profit. Use a skid in the hole to fine grade the bottom and keep the spoils pushed up the excavator.


That would be a perfect scenario, not knowing the site or conditions this advice should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[JBGASH]

It can be done fairly easy at that depth with a 200 class excavator. A compact trackloader or loader will be helpful if u have access to one, if not proceed without. Once you get started on it you will figure out a workable method with the site conditions you have to deal with is the best advice I can give you.

 

[Shimmy1]

While I agree it can be done with a 200, I'm not sure I can also use the word "easily" in the description. Eight to ten feet I consider in the realm of "easy". Depending on how far away the spoil has to go, you're going to need at least 3 trucks. If you can't do a drive-by, it will be more productive to use 2 hoes, after pulling out 4'-6' for about half the dig. It's a little small to do it this way, and if you're billing this by the hour, maybe stick with one hoe. If it's a bid job, or by the yard, AND you have two hoes, then two is going to be more practical and profitable, provided you have enough truck capability.

 

[movindirt]

So is the 60' x 53' the size at the very bottom? You say it needs to be sloped for safety so you'll actually be pulling a lot more material than just a 60'x53' area. Its doable with a 200, but it would go quicker with a larger machine, your going to have a lot of cycle time with each bucket booming down that far and back up again. Does all the material have to leave the site or can some be piled close to the hole (stepped back and sloped properly of course)? If its all leaving the site, how long of a trip is it?

 

[JoshA]

Thank you all, it's good to hear how others would approach this job, as there is undoubtedly a few ways it can be done, depending on circumstances that I can't discuss just yet. I wish there was a closed section of this forum sometimes.


Try to answer the questions as I can...

- It's a BOQ, so ultimately need to find the cheapest way to put a yard of dirt into the truck.
- I cannot tell yet whether I can bring trucks into the hole, due to soil conditions.
- Pretty well have any size/multiple machines available, just need to be able to pencil the cheapest.
- Almost all the dirt is to be stockpiled elsewhere on site.

The tricky part here is that it's an in between size. Deep enough to have a bigger machine, too small to justify mob'ing it in. Deep enough to ramp trucks down but too small to be practical.

Thanks!

 

[movindirt]

I think the TGIF section is closed to non memebers if you wanted to post there, can any mods verify that?

 

[CM1995]

I think the TGIF section is closed to non memebers if you wanted to post there, can any mods verify that?

That's correct but all one has to do to view it is become a member, so it's private to a point.

I wish there was a closed section of this forum sometimes.

There is but it's used for admin purposes.

 

[Shimmy1]

The tricky part here is that it's an in between size. Deep enough to have a bigger machine, too small to justify mob'ing it in. Deep enough to ramp trucks down but too small to be practical.

These were my thoughts as well reading your first post. Definitely will be faster with two hoes, but you need at least 30' benched out to give your bottom hoe room to work, and that's half the length you have to work with. Then, if you don't have enough room to work the two excavators side by side, you'll be down to one hoe for the last 15' at least However, the issue using one hoe is just what movindirt said. If you have to go down, scoop, pick up while swinging around 180°, dump, and do it all over again your cycle time is probably going to be around 15-20 seconds per bucket towards the bottom, maybe more. Over 3 minutes to load a tandem is a little bit much, IMO. With two hoes, you could maybe make do with one or two less trucks, because the bottom hoe doesn't have to be dumping into a truck, and the top hoe is picking dirt from 5' instead of 10'+. Could potentially shave a minute off load time, and the guy digging the hole doesn't have to deal with truck drivers. Overall, a lot less pressure and stress on the hoe guys with 2 hoes.

 

[clintm]

put the trucks in the hole or at least halfway down. I have dug commercial basements smaller than that with 200 size machines 25 years ago( damn I am getting old). If you can only get the trucks a couple of feet lower than the hoe it will cut your cycle time by a least a third. A 300 size machine with about 3yd bucket would be the best any larger and it's hard to load a tandem truck unless they are setting just perfect. when you are waiting on the truck's to get positioned that's when you reach the furthest and deepest and pile it up close to the truck's.I would prefer a track large loader or small dozer over track skid in the cut so that you can just bail dirt and not worry about cutting grade with the hoe the machine in the hole will need to keep the rut's leveled up so the trucks can get around.I have dug large basements (over 100,yds ) up town with belly dumps and 400's 5yd buckets below the water table and had the trucks in the hole 35ft deep only ran two hoes when we had to move the ramp so I wouldn't think you need two hoe's on some thing that small.

 

[dozerman400]

If you have to truck most of it out, no sense double handling any more than you have to. Plan A bench down 5' loading it on trucks. then get them in there to load out the rest.
Plan B keep trucks and 200 on top grade, reach what you can maybe staying 6" high on bottom grade, get in hole with Hoe after a while and grade bottom 6" or so to where you can reach it again from up top. The last corner may take a while but no wasted moves this way. You can try digging it right to grade from top cut, but some crumbs may get away from you where you have to get in bottom any way.

 

[JoshA]

That's correct but all one has to do to view it is become a member, so it's private to a point.




There is but it's used for admin purposes.

Can't say as I've ever been in that section, only on here long enough to check yours and LC's thread every few days, a quick browse of general and ex's and not much time for a lot else!

 

[gwhammy]

Roughly 12,000 yds, with the back slopes probably around 14 to 15. You are going to have to have a ramp to work in the hole I'm guessing so I would start the cut and have the trucks back into me in the cut. Probably make the first cut around 8 feet, this puts the top of the trucks at track height makes cycle time a lot faster. If possible bring the trucks backing in the same way on the second cut. You can leave a ramp sticking out into the cut to make the slope easier then take it out at the last. Sounds like about a five to six day job roughing it out with a 200 size hoe. One thing, truck drivers will kill you if they d*ck around backing into you. I like to have someone backing them in so at least one is to you before the one you are loading leaves. Makes a world of difference in cycle time.

 

[gwhammy]

Yardage way off, getting up at 2 in the morning my brain wasn't working. I would still cut it in two cuts. Small as it is maybe back the trucks in the cut still if soil will support. Take the cut all the way across. I guess it makes a difference where the ramp comes in but that is the side I would take out last. I've done basements up to 70,000 yards with this size machine. Trick is cycle time and having a truck under you all the time. Full swing out of a hole and over the side is the least efficient. Short picks and short swings on a smaller machine will still move a lot of dirt.