Interchangeable wheel/track for skid steers - real need?

[DavidLevin]

Hello all:

Could really use some advice from people who used skidsteers for an hour or two

My company developed a technology that can interchange between a wheel and a track (see video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naccztNpDZU ). Although we have it working for military robotics, we think we can do it for skidsteers as well. (here's a video illustration of larger tractor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WG4MjOzljw.

Question is, assuming we can pull this off, would anyone need it?

Although below images and video are larger machines, we would like to try it out first on skidsteers

 

[KSSS]

You drive system looks similiar to the Remotec system on their Andros series with the use of the articulators.

You may or may not be aware of the VTS tracks which are made to go back and forth between wheels and tracks. If not you may want to Google VTS (sorry don't have a link, but I do have a set of their tracks on a CASE 440).

 

[DavidLevin]

Yep, we saw VTS, thanks. However, the VTS system requires a manual installation of tracks/wheels. That is, you cannot use both for any one job.

Our system would offer the use of both wheels and tracks for any given job. Our thinking is that some jobs may require tracks only 20 or 30% of the time, but you wear the tracks out since they are mounted 100% of the time. So imagine you are on wheels whenever possible and can convert to tracks with a pull of a lever whenever it is necessary. Would there be a need for something like that?

 

[Steve Frazier]

I think it will depend on the cost of the system and the reliability. The reason you would need a system like this would be for added traction in muddy conditions. Can your system operate reliably with mud entering the the hub where the mechanical arms and linkage are located? Will the system retract if loaded with packed mud? Have you managed to produce a track material that will stand up to stretching and retracting and still hold up to the torque of heavy machines? If you can make it work, there would be a market for it but the cost would have to be affordable.

 

[KSSS]

If you figure out how to make it work on a variety of different machines which have much varied ROCs and power out, would be the question but I would agree that the concept is awesome.

 

[td25c]

Hello all:

Could really use some advice from people who used skidsteers for an hour or two

My company developed a technology that can interchange between a wheel and a track (see video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naccztNpDZU ). Although we have it working for military robotics, we think we can do it for skidsteers as well. (here's a video illustration of larger tractor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WG4MjOzljw.

Question is, assuming we can pull this off, would anyone need it?

Although below images and video are larger machines, we would like to try it out first on skidsteers

You have a good idea.I dont think I need it but someone dose.Maybe NASA?

 

[TALLRICK]

I am pretty sure that this will fail on a skid steer. If you try and put four of those on a loader, they will not fit. If you put only two of them, those axles cannot support all the weight. The track is flexible so after the skidsteer operator has turned the machine on sharp rocks or demolition debris, the track snaps like a rubber band due to the cut. Skid steer tracks have to be reinforced with steel or nylon cords to keep them from popping off. You would be amazed how much damage can be done to those tracks during normal use. Also the skid steer loader with wheels is just as destructive to the ground as the tracked ones. There is simply no way this can be cost effective for any current skid loader design

What would work is an articulated loader, like the schaffer design with these wheels on it. Also might be a great accessory for 3 wheeled truck mounted forklifts. Your wheelchair design is simply amazing and I hope it becomes a production item.

 

[DavidLevin]

Thank you all for the comments.

Tallrick, regarding Skidsteer, here are some of our thoughts:

1. By design, the rubber track does not stretch. It only folds and unfolds (that's where quite a bit of the tech know how). The track will be as strong and reliable as a conventional rubber track or, like you said it won't work.
2. Your comments on the function of these on conventional skidsteers are well taken and we thank you for them. Our idea is a bit different, and we'd love to run it by you. Our thought is to mount a skid steer with two very large wheels (maybe 1.5m) and have a coaster wheel. When the wheels stretch they will be of equivalent length and function as conventional tracks, including of course center of gravity. When they contract however, you'll have a machine that will be far more maneuverable than existing machines.

Any thoughts on that?

Regarding the wheelchair, we're working on that too - you'd be amazed how tough that market is.

 

[shane]

I thought that video was kinda cool. If that could be packed into the size of a skid steer, someone would buy it, I'll bet. Bobcat did the R+D and started production on their RC capable for a seemingly small market, gotta wonder about that.

When I saw the video, I wasn't thinking stretching,,,,,I was looking at my Timex twist-o-flex watchband.......=).

 

[TALLRICK]

Thank you all for the comments.

Tallrick, regarding Skidsteer, here are some of our thoughts:

1. By design, the rubber track does not stretch. It only folds and unfolds (that's where quite a bit of the tech know how). The track will be as strong and reliable as a conventional rubber track or, like you said it won't work.
2. Your comments on the function of these on conventional skidsteers are well taken and we thank you for them. Our idea is a bit different, and we'd love to run it by you. Our thought is to mount a skid steer with two very large wheels (maybe 1.5m) and have a coaster wheel. When the wheels stretch they will be of equivalent length and function as conventional tracks, including of course center of gravity. When they contract however, you'll have a machine that will be far more maneuverable than existing machines.

Any thoughts on that?

Regarding the wheelchair, we're working on that too - you'd be amazed how tough that market is.

The idea of a skid steer with casters was kind of the idea behind the forkster attachment which can lift the loader and prevent damage from turning. If you can make a track system that goes from flat contact with the ground to round wheel like contact you have something there. Just make a roller system that will not stretch the rubber track. I would think it would be useful for work on all surfaces. What you are doing is probably modernizing the original Melroe loader (http://skidsteerhistory.com/images/First Melroe.JPG) which in my opinion a worthy project to accomplish.

 

[lgammon]

i think the idea is great but the reality is that in this game it is keep it simple. not of will say that we abuse our machines but we do.they work hard and in horriable conditions day in and out. we need out stuff to be simple so that it not fail and when it does we can repair it on site, any time technolgy gets past us we resist. unless it is a vast inprovment in comfort or productivity we tend to sit aside till it is proven.....and that is a hard row to hoe

 

[DavidLevin]

Walk behinds?

Some people were mentioning walk behinds as a possible application. Here's our illustration: http://www.galileomobility.com/?p=448

Thoughts were going around that this could help with fatigue of guys working with Trenchers

Anyone has any experience with those?

 

[mouse]

like the thinking dave!

a single wheeled skid could be interesting but then maybe fitting it with a gyro might be simpler?

the forces loading etc are going to test out the ability of your arms to counterbalance the weight - but then again maybe you could do away with the hydraulics of the loader arms and just lift by tilting back on your wheels? (and therefore need to suspend the operator etc)

however that gets into the realm of designing a new machine which is probably a bit extreme.

remote surveillance looks like the initial 'commercial' use obviously.

gotta say i'm rather curious about your track construction/design.

howbout a video of the demo thingy running through some decent mud?? (or did i not watch enough of the video)

 

[DavidLevin]

The video does show some testing on sand, gravel and rocks, but nothing like what you guys do to those machines. Here's an image though of the robot after hard work in muddy conditions:

http://www.galileomobility.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ViperMud.JPG

The track in track form acts just like a normal track, so the concern was not as much on durability and reliability, but rather whether it will be able to fold back to a wheel after a hard day's work. Interestingly, the mechanism that folds and unfolds the track also pushes out mud and debris as the track rolls or folds. Under extensive and rigorous testing that has actually yet to be a problem (fortunately).

 

[Yellowdog]

very cool idea. I for one have the need for tracks and tires on many jobs. I don't like steel OTT tracks for the work I do, though they do come in handy for traction. Rubber tracks would be helpful but when it gets rocky, I'd have to use tires. A system that adapted would be great but I bet it would not be worth the price unless you really could ramp up productivity on a jobsite.

 

[DavidLevin]

Yellowdog, if this would cost maybe 10 - 20% the price of a conventional rubber track, BUT, the life of the track would increase substantially since you would use it only when needed, would it then be worth it to you?

 

[DavidLevin]

let me correct myself, that's 10-20% MORE than a conventional rubber track SYSTEM (not just the rubber track itself). Another words, say a tracked machine costs 20% more than a wheeled machine, this would be maybe 30% more than a wheeled machine, but could increase rubber track life and also be far more maneuverable, would it be worth it?

 

[BruceJ]

Yes, very cool idea. I have Over The Wheel Grousers (steel tracks)for my 863 Bobcat and they take some punishment.They also put a lot of strain on the drive parts of the bobcat. Advice i would give for DavidLevin is that Bobcats are SKID steers you need to beable to skid to steer, sometimes very quickly with loads of force placed on those tracks whether they are retracted or not so some thought will have to go into these issues..sorry if im stating the obvious...