JD 410 engine problems after rebuild

[Burns-Tractor]

Ok I finally finished the complete engine rebuild on my JD 410 (straight 410).
I'm now trying to start it for the first time and it seems like it is blowing air out of the intake and it is making a popping sound out the intake?
My timing should be correct, I put paint marks on all the gears before I disassembled them and I lined up all the marks when I put it back together.
This engine was torn down to a empty block and everything that went back in was new. I had the head and valves done by a shop so I know everything is good there.
Does anyone have any ideas?
I have far to much money in this to give up now.
Thanks for any help

 

[thepumpguysc]

I have a question..
When u marked the gears for the inj. pump, did u pull the gear with or without the pump drive shaft.
I ask this silly question because,
It’s easier BUT.. the drive shaft has to b times to the pump and it’s SUPER EASY to get it 180* out of time which would explain ALL YOUR SYMPTOMS..
If u wanna check it..
Pull the pump..
Look at the end of the drive shaft u see a dot on the end..
Now look inside the pump, there’s another dot... THE DOTS HAVE TO MATCH.. dot to dot..
I sure hope that’s all it is...
Good luck.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Some of the drive shafts for certain models STAY IN the pump and won’t come out unless forced..
In which case, never mind...
If u want to post the pump #, I’d b happy to look it up for u..

 

[Burns-Tractor]

I have a question..
When u marked the gears for the inj. pump, did u pull the gear with or without the pump drive shaft.
I ask this silly question because,
It’s easier BUT.. the drive shaft has to b times to the pump and it’s SUPER EASY to get it 180* out of time which would explain ALL YOUR SYMPTOMS..
If u wanna check it..
Pull the pump..
Look at the end of the drive shaft u see a dot on the end..
Now look inside the pump, there’s another dot... THE DOTS HAVE TO MATCH.. dot to dot..
I sure hope that’s all it is...
Good luck.

Ok that makes perfect sense, after I put all of the timing gears on I worried about getting the injection pump off a half rotation, I thought I had a 50/50 chance of being right and I guess I was wrong . What would be the easiest way to rotate the pump 180°?
Thanks so much for the help

 

[Burns-Tractor]

Some of the drive shafts for certain models STAY IN the pump and won’t come out unless forced..
In which case, never mind...
If u want to post the pump #, I’d b happy to look it up for u..

Here is a picture of the serial tag.
Thank you for your help

 

[Burns-Tractor]

Some of the drive shafts for certain models STAY IN the pump and won’t come out unless forced..
In which case, never mind...
If u want to post the pump #, I’d b happy to look it up for u..

The shaft slides right out of the pump, I believe the gear is pressed onto the shaft

 

[thepumpguysc]

The absolute best way is to pull the pump off..
Look at the end of the drive shaft and into the pump & match the dots..
If they are indeed off 180*, just reach inside the pump w a screwdriver and turn the inside of the pump.. DO NOT BUMP THE ENGINE.!!

 

[Burns-Tractor]

The absolute best way is to pull the pump off..
Look at the end of the drive shaft and into the pump & match the dots..
If they are indeed off 180*, just reach inside the pump w a screwdriver and turn the inside of the pump.. DO NOT BUMP THE ENGINE.!!

Thanks, I'll get it pulled apart today and see what it looks like

 

[Burns-Tractor]

Ok, today I got the pump pulled and the dots were not lined up. I rotated the pump a half turn and reassembled.
The engine is now blowing some black smoke out the exhaust but it is not starting. However it is also blowing back out the intake? I'm wondering about a stuck valve? Although this engine had the head redone with all new valves but the engine sat for 6 months in a 3 walled garden shed with a tarp over it.
I'm thinking maybe with the humidity made a valve stick? I'll pull the valve cover off tomorrow and see what it looks like.
I also gave this engine a shot of WD-40 and it would not fire on it.
Any other ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks for your time and trouble

 

[thepumpguysc]

Is it possible u ran/set the valves 180* too.??

 

[Burns-Tractor]

There is always a possibility lol
I did put paint marks on all the gears and I lined them all up when I went back together so it should be correct.
I replaced the camshaft but the gear only goes on one way.
Although the engine is blowing back out the intake it is also puffing smoke out the exhaust. I'll check the valves tomorrow and if that's not it then I'll dig deeper.
Thanks for the help

 

[thepumpguysc]

Or possibly the wrong crank.??
Here’s hoping for the best..!!

 

[Vetech63]

Popping through the intake is because the intake valve on that cylinder isnt sealing.

 

[Tinkerer]

Burns-Tractor;
Do you happen to have a series of videos on YouTube ?
Your identical problem with a 410 is on there.
The poster has paint marks on the gears like you described.
He still doesn't have his running.

 

[Burns-Tractor]

Or possibly the wrong crank.??
Here’s hoping for the best..!!

I'm sure the crank is the correct one, I matched up numbers when I bought it and I compared the two side by side and they were identical

 

[Burns-Tractor]

Popping through the intake is because the intake valve on that cylinder isnt sealing.

That's what I'm wondering, perhaps one got a bit of surface rust from setting.
I'll pull the valve cover off today and see what I can find

 

[Burns-Tractor]

Burns-Tractor;
Do you happen to have a series of videos on YouTube ?
Your identical problem with a 410 is on there.

The poster has paint marks on the gears like you described.
He still doesn't have his running.

Yes that is me

 

[Willie B]

Years back I rebuilt a tractor engine, a BD144 in a B275 utility tractor. Injector pump timing I did step by step as the manual called for. Two very competent mechanics rechecked my work. Still, it didn't work. I went to the best engine rebuilder in the area. My manual was I&T, his was International Harvester. He walked me through timing procedure, word for word what the manual called for. He didn't believe either manual. It was a big job to move the timing gears, I had to split the tractor again, but I did what Jack told me to do & it worked to move the gear 1 tooth.

 

[Tinkerer]

I watched the videos. I think the camshaft timing could be off.
Weren't there any factory-stamped timing marks on the gears ????
Was #1 cylinder turned up to TDC on the compression stroke when you painted those marks ?
If it wasn't when you realigned the IP timing marks that may have created another issue.
IMHO! which is worth what you paid for it.

 

[mg2361]

The only timing marks will be on the cam gear and the injection pump gear. None of the others have marks (exception would be crank and balancer shafts if it has those).

To properly time the engine #1 has to be TDC with the flywheel pinned. Then a tool (JD254, see below) is used to align the marks on the cam and injection pump to the crankshaft (I have successfully timed with a straight edge as well, but it is easier with the tool).