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John Deere 160clc slow and week functions intermittent

mg2361

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What specifically was the engine rpm's when you stalled one track, then the other.

It would have been nice to see the entire sequence of the blinking of the engine light also.
 
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The Dirt Guy

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What specifically was the engine rpm's when you stalled one track, then the other.

It would have been nice to see the entire sequence of the blinking of the engine light also.

the blinking engine light code is 88 which is (no codes)
 

Diesel Dave

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The turbo boost pressure is on the money, minimum spec is 11 psi.
How many hours are on the machine.
What hydraulic testing did Deere perform to say the main hydraulic pump was good ? Was it tested on your machine or disassembled on the bench to check the internals.
 
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The Dirt Guy

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10k hrs and test was done on the machine not disassembled. I don’t know what they did they just reported it checked good flow and my pump wasn’t the issue.
 

LACHAU

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@ The Dirt Guy:
I'm sorry I didn't read all the posts because this post is too long!
So what symptoms do your machine have right now? Is it weak in all activities or only in a few? The pressure you say only achieves 2500 psi is the pressure of pump #1 or pump #2? That's the maximum pressure of all movements, right?
Are the movements slow?
When the pressure is reduced to only 2500 psi do you check what the engine speed is then? I mean you have to double-check: check with your own speed meter and compare it with the value displayed on the screen of your machine.
 
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Diesel Dave

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After watching the video a few times I suspect the main hydraulic pump is the issue. Pressure certainly is all over the map.
When you switch the display to pump 2 pressure, the max pressure when I assume the boom was at full height was the same pressure while the boom was in motion.
If it was mine ,I would remove the main pump and remove the rear housing.
I expect you are going to find some heavy inconsistent wear on the rear housing where the 2 valve plates contact and slide and also heavy wear on both valve plates causing internal leaks that vary in size depending what position the valve plates are in.
 

The Dirt Guy

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After watching the video a few times I suspect the main hydraulic pump is the issue. Pressure certainly is all over the map.
When you switch the display to pump 2 pressure, the max pressure when I assume the boom was at full height was the same pressure while the boom was in motion.
If it was mine ,I would remove the main pump and remove the rear housing.
I expect you are going to find some heavy inconsistent wear on the rear housing where the 2 valve plates contact and slide and also heavy wear on both valve plates causing internal leaks that vary in size depending what position the valve plates are in.

Thank Diesel Dave for the input...So, I just want to make sure this is explained well, the function I was performing was boom up, hold till main relief lifts which is set at 35mpa. In the beginning of the video on pump 1 delivery pressure, it reached and functioned correctly when I lowered the boom and attempted to perform the same function again it stops around15-20mpa. Then I switched the display to pump 2 delivery pressure and the readings were the same 15-16mpa. These reading were consistent while performing any function even when pinning the tracks out and isolating the pumps independently.

I am sure there is wear on the pump given the hours but supposedly the pump has 4k hours on it. When the machine makes its way back to the dealer, I may have them check it (if I don't figure it out by then or find another pump). BUT its hard to hear on the video but when its building pressure and stops at the 16-20mpa mark, while on the machine it sounds like it dumps the pressure as if the machine thinks you have backed off on the function. What could be possible areas of the machine dumping or I guess bypassing the pressure.
 

The Dirt Guy

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@ The Dirt Guy:
I'm sorry I didn't read all the posts because this post is too long!
So what symptoms do your machine have right now? Is it weak in all activities or only in a few? The pressure you say only achieves 2500 psi is the pressure of pump #1 or pump #2? That's the maximum pressure of all movements, right?
Are the movements slow?
When the pressure is reduced to only 2500 psi do you check what the engine speed is then? I mean you have to double-check: check with your own speed meter and compare it with the value displayed on the screen of your machine.

The thread has a lot of information in it which is important to the symptoms of the machine, symptoms are the same as #1. 2500psi on PUMP 1 &2 delivery pressure and randomly will meet the set point of 5000psi; this occurs why performing any function even pinning the tracks to isolate the pumps. All movements are slow, all display readings are accurate (in spec) except for PUMP 1 &2 delivery pressure. when pressure is reduced the engine speed is normal 2100-2300rpm.
 

Diesel Dave

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Per Deere specs a good used hydraulic pump should produce in total approx 58 GPM ( 29 GPM each pump) at 3000 psi.
A potential internal oil leak in the main control valve of approx 55-60 GPM at 2500 psi will create great gobs of heat and a hot spot at the source of the leak.
A temperature gun would be ok to search for a hot spot but if you have access to a thermal imaging camera would be best.
Be sure to shoot temperature readings of the mains hydraulic pump at some point as well.
 

LACHAU

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The thread has a lot of information in it which is important to the symptoms of the machine, symptoms are the same as #1. 2500psi on PUMP 1 &2 delivery pressure and randomly will meet the set point of 5000psi; this occurs when performing any function even pinning the tracks to isolate the pumps. All movements are slow, and all display readings are accurate (in spec) except for PUMP 1 &2 delivery pressure. when pressure is reduced the engine speed is normal at 2100-2300rpm.
All right, so we can rule out the cause of the fault by a decrease in engine speed.
The only reason could be:
1/- Due to the main pressure relief valve on the control valve set.
2/- Due to the main pump regulator.
Now, what is easy and simple we do first. I suggest you remove the main pressure relief valve and check it thoroughly.

If the error of the machine still cannot be fixed, we will conduct a check of the regulator of the main pump later.
ZX160CLC Main relief.png
 
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The Dirt Guy

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Ok took the machine to the dealer here are the results…new pilot pump and pilot control valve installed, flow tested main pumps 29gpm for each which was in spec but on the low end. They concluded the main relief is still lifting and they clam it dirty hydraulic oil….so I’m going to bring it home and drain the oil and cycle it and repeat the drain of the system 3 times. Any suggestions on how to prevent the main relief from lifting?
 

The Dirt Guy

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Ok took the machine to the dealer here are the results…new pilot pump and pilot control valve installed, flow tested main pumps 29gpm for each which was in spec but on the low end. They concluded the main relief is still lifting and they clam it dirty hydraulic oil….so I’m going to bring it home and drain the oil and cycle it and repeat the drain of the system 3 times. Any suggestions on how to prevent the main relief from lifting?
Main relief is new also.
 

Diesel Dave

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If they are blaming dirty hydraulic oil for the relief blowing open at low psi, I would remove the valve ,disassemble and clean it. You should be able to see if any debris is stuck in it.
What pilot control valve did the dealer change ? Do you have a part # from the work order ?
Did you gain any performance after they replaced the pilot pump and the valve ?
 
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The Dirt Guy

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Pilot control valve part number 9220219 (entire assembly), pilot pump part number 0942001. The tech told me when the machine would relieve pressure he could back the adjustment screw off and screw it back and it would build pressure just an fyi on that as well. Also, the main relief it new.
upload_2023-1-30_11-15-30.pngupload_2023-1-30_11-14-47.png
 

terex herder

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Kansas
Is there a problem on the suction side, between the tank and pump? Is the hydraulic tank pressurizing ( I think it is supposed to pressurize).

Does your machine need the pricy no zinc oil?
 

The Dirt Guy

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yes tank is pressurizing and no according to the dealer the machine does not require the non-zinc oil but is recommended since replacement seals and Orings are susceptible to degradation when exposed to zinc additives.
 
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