John Deere 410k - wont move (return tdc to neutral message)

[DW911]

Hello,
i have a 2013 410k backhoe which was working properly. I drove it, dug with the hoe for a bit, went to move the machine and it would not go into gear. I get a message on the dash to "return tdc (shift leaver) to neutral". This is the same message that i would get if the seat was not in the forward locked position.

The first thing i did was pull the seat out to check the switch which the dealer led me to believe was a simple 2 wire unit.
It turns out there are 6 wires and i have no idea where to begin.

And of course the hoe is 100 miles from the dealer in a customers yard,which i have all tore up, where there isn't even cell service...doh!

Thanks for reading

 

[mg2361]

Serial number?

If you press and hold the menu button for 5 seconds until "service menu" appears in the screen, you can then scroll to diagnostics/sensors/seat position. Then you can watch live readings from the seat position switch to see if the controller is seeing the change in seat position.

 

[DW911]

Thank you for the reply,
1T0410KXCDE248289
I am going to go and check the service menu this morning, thank you for that.

 

[GregA]

Did you find the issue, my 410K TC is having the same kinda of problem. Won't even let me start it, went through the service menu and the Seat sensor says Error. Do i assume that it's need to be replaced?
Serial Number is 1T0410TKLCE228167
Attached is a picture of the lights that are flashing except for the battery. At first I thought it was the battery were dead but they are up to 13.4 volts now, and only couple months old. Not sure where to start here,

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF GregA!

Could you please start your own thread. You have a different issue. When you start the other thread, post any codes that are stored or active in the post.

 

[DW911]

I did fix mine.
The service menu showed no problem with the seat position sensor. it did however show a fault in the transmission solinoids. This led to finding a damaged harness on the right side of the transmission behind a guard covering the solinoids. Looks like a root or something managed to find its way in there.
The weird part is that i got no codes untill i accessed the service menu but the but the code indicator on the dash would flash when i checked the solinoids through the menu.

Thanks one more time mg2361, that tip saved me days of down time.

 

[mg2361]

Thanks for posting what you found DW.

This led to finding a damaged harness on the right side of the transmission behind a guard covering the solinoids. Looks like a root or something managed to find its way in there.

Common problem on those machines.

 

[Noble grade]

Hi, my 2015 Deere 210L is having this problem also. The code reader and tractor diagnosis screen says Return TCL ( transmission control lever ) to neutral. I had cleared the code with the scanner and it would move around for a little bit then go into neutral again, when i replaced the shiftier lever the fix seemed to be the issue.and ran fine for about 15 minutes. Then return TCL to neutral message came on again but this time the code will not clear to even move it. My question is i wanted to know what and where is the seat position switch that you refereed to?Or if my model even has one. I have not checked that yet or the harness along the transmission.but i am going to, please let me know if you can, Serial number 1t8210lxhff892808 Thank you.

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Noble!

What specific code did you see (SPN/FMI Format XXXXXX.XX)?

Is the park brake light going off when the brake is released?

Did you check the TCL connectors real good? Those canopy machines have a history of water intrusion into the TCL connectors.

 

[Noble grade]

Thank you for helping me. it says transmission direction switch FMI=5 current below normal or open circuit count 5 SPN903FMI 5 it also has a (J1939)3 transmission #1-E6 on the top of the Ancel 3600 screen, The parking brake light goes off when released and the machine is in neutral and can be pushed easily. I tried to clean the machine side connectors when i put the new TCL on as they were dusty with some contact cleaner after blowing them off with air. Hopefully this helps, i appreciate your time.

 

[mg2361]

903.05, is it active or stored? This code means the Forward direction of the TCL is open.

Press and hold the menu button for 5 seconds until SERVICE MENU appears in the screen. Then go to diagnostics, then transmission. In there (under sub menu GEAR) you can see all the inputs to the TCU.

The E6 thing is not Deere. Must be something with your scanner.

 

[Noble grade]

Hi, thanks again for helping me, i cannot tell if it is active or stored. I believe it is active. When i went to the gear section where it showed forward neutral and reverse with the off showing off to the right the forward and neutral icon was showing off but would blink to a half looking on every couple of seconds.At first when i selected direction gear nothing would happen in the screen, then the screen would show the appropriate gear and then the transmission went into gear. Like it was fixed again. This has happened before. I am hoping you can help me, ... i am bracing myself for a crawl under to find a short somewhere. I have had a small o ring leak for awhile, it could be soaking a connector somewhere, let me know what you think. Thank you.

 

[Noble grade]

This is what i found to be a little odd. Thank you.

 

[mg2361]

 

[Noble grade]

Hi, thanks again, the second active fault was the back up alarm, i had it here at my place and disconnected it to not annoy the neighbors. The others are the gps and jd link for tech support through Deere. I disconnected the gps link to Deere. The TCL code is now stored, thank you for showing me how to read the active and stored codes ( that was a pro tip) I have seen that low voltage to the TCL code come up before i had changed the shift lever. The unit still goes into gear today and the service menu let me clear the codesWhen i put on the new TCL Lever the tractor ran for 15 +/- minutes before going into the trouble code with the TCL return transmission to neutral. So i agree with you on the low voltage thing, loose wire , connector or something. The blank 3 dashes and then an icon of off or on on the same screen hints at that low voltage, drop out problem. Glad you are helping me, i am going to run it again tomorrow when i get home to see if it goes into TCL code again. Thank you.

 

[mg2361]

The 920.12 alarm output DTC is for the monitor's audible alarm, not your backup alarm.

 

[Noble grade]

Hi, well driving the skip loader around lasted about 8 minutes and then went back to this active fault code. I tried to clear it in the service menu, it said it cleared it, restarted the machine and it still wont move again. It was worth a try, lol.... anyways, let me know what you suggest, i believe i have maxed out my knowledge for troubleshooting, i appreciate the help, thank you.

 

[mg2361]

I think there is an issue with the voltage supply to the TCL, or the TCL itself. To verify, I sent you a schematic for the TCL circuit. When the issue is present, test for the voltages at the back of the monitor that correspond to the inputs from the TCL to see which, if any input is lost. Also, make sure the 12 volt power is coming out of the monitor, feeding the TCL.

While in there, make sure the all the terminals in the connectors are corrosion free and have tight connections.

I misspoke earlier when I mentioned TCU. There is no TCU on the 210L. The monitor on the 210L controls the voltage to the TCL.

 

[Noble grade]

Rad, thanks wish me luck , im going in.

 

[Noble grade]

Hi, so i now have power to the tcu due to a dirty plug i believe. When i scroll through the gear menu in the service menu i do not have any blank areas where the icon for on should for gear selection. The solenoid menu also stated that everything is working. But, the minute i try to to put it on the low bed the trans forward wont engage, reverse does. The tractor is not throwing any codes either, strange enough when i rev the rpm a little it sometime will go into forward gear, reverse is fast and responsive. Does this tractor have a transmission filter? Or maybe do you think i may have a somewhat faulty forward solenoid? I ended up putting back on the old tcl since the tractor seemed more responsive with it rather then the aftermarket one with the Russian writing on it. Let me know your thoughts please when you get a chance, much appreciated.