Looked at a used 580ck today

[whf4]

I posted quite a bit back about at looking at used TLBs. So I finally got free from work and looked at a 1970s 580CK today. (like a ninny I didn't check the plate for the date and exact model number). 50-60 hours on rebuilt engine after a catastrophic failure, all 50-60 put on by the present owner who bought it after the rebuild.

The good news: the 4 cyl diesel started first touch of the key in about 42 degree weather and I do not think the owner had been warming it. No smoke even at startup.

The shuttle shift seemed to work fine, tho I have not operated one before... We were in a small yard and the brakes seemed uncertain to me so I did not exercise the transmission beyond forward and reverse in low gear.

I put the loader and the boom of the hoe out horizontal, killed the engine, and went on chatting with the owner and check the engine oil. Looked dark but fine to me; maybe a faint whiff of diesel odor but put some drops on a paper towel and waited, no halo. I think its just oil, not contaminated with diesel.

The boom and the bucket had not budged at all while I looked at the engine. Doh! forgot to look at the coolant.

I put the loader bucket down and up and picked the front wheels off the ground several times. I did not detect any change in the relationship between the front wheels and the axles. The loader operated smoothly through its range of motion (booms and bucket) as did the backhoe and the stabilizers.

The rubber looks great.

Now the bad news.

Big: the pin/bushings where the hoe connects to the main body of the tlb has way more play than it ought- probably 3/16 wiggle when you put the hoe into the earth so that it goes from pushing up to pushing down. Similarly witht he hydraulic cylinders that move the boom from side to side. There was visible play where the cylinder rods attach to the boom (maybe not the right word) of the hoe.

The brakes are imaginary, if the two pedals on the right above the throttle pedal are in fact supposed to be brakes. The pedal on the left side of the tlb stops forward motion when pressed. I am not trying to be snotty, they looked like brake pedals to me, but nothing happened when I pushed 'em.

Small(er) stuff: leak at fitting between hose and cylinder on how boom extension. Owner states adds hydraulic fluid, a gallon every "so often". He had pretty clearly filled it and acknowledged overfilling ti as a fair amount of hydraulic fluid escaped through the ports on the tops of the loader towers and dribbled down.

Tractor does not charge; owner hooks battery to a charger every few weeks.

ask is $5500 firm.

What I want it for is to dig footers for a garage, drain tiles around my house, MAYBE expand a pond (tho I have certainly seen warnings posted here about the uninitiated who try to dig ponds). I will at some point need to trench 800 feet of water line in form the curb. I am reasonably confident I can address the leaking fitting and the charging issue on my own. The backhoe attachment point - no way. The brakes- I'd need to learn more about what is involved before attmepting it on my own.

For what I want it for, how urgent is addressing the slop where the boom of the hoe attaches to the tractor body, and the slop in the cylinder rods that swing the hoe?

How big a deal is fixing the rear brakes? I have done tons of brakes on CARS but not on a machine like this.

thanks in advance for your patience and your help.

Bill

 

[tx_swordguy]

I do not see any mention about the physical "look" of the hoe (rust, dinged sheet metal etc). In my opinion for the weekend warrior wanting to do some "stuff" around the property like you have listed I think it is a pretty decent deal. Brakes can be a pain to work on. I am a flatlander so the brake issue is not a huge deal and I use them maybe 5% of the time. my 555B has brakes, and will stop but will not return and I have to reach down and pull the brakes pedals back up. I would DEFINATELY run all gears and see if you have highway gears. It will have next to nothing as far as get up and go in highway gears, but once it is moving, if they are working right it will move on out fairly well. ATC may chime in here soon and he is DA MAN to talk to. If it was me, I would go for it, just look it over one more time real well. I found a $100 one wire alt to replace mine and it was easy as pie make work. just a little fitting and filing and it went on much cheaper than the true replacement would have. Make sure that the hoe can lift the back end off the ground as well, (although I did all that and ended up replacing my hyd pump anyway after buying my hoe) Hope it works out for you.

 

[whf4]

Look of the 580ck

The machine looked like a 40 year old machine worked hard and put away wet. No obvious abuse.

No welds in anything structural that I could find, and I looked and then looked some more.

The fenders look to be ad-hoc welded sheet metal rather than factory.

The linkages around the spool valves, esp for the loader, were pretty worn.

The loader bucket needs a new cutting edge but the bucket itself is the right shape. the backhoe bucket has worn but present and accounted or teeth. the backhoe bucket linkages look a bit sloppy.

thanks for the encouraging words. i will wait and see what ATC and Phil have to say.

I am not familiar with the shuttle shift- how do you change gears? Put the shuttle in neutral and choose your gear? Re-engage and step on the accelerator?

You don;t sound worried aboutt he hoe attachment points.

 

[Phil]

Doesn't sound like a bad buy. Bad brakes are common on these machines, some seem to continue using the machine without them. They are not hard to work on once the floor plates are removed. Swing bushings and pins are another common area of wear. I don't think the 580CK has swing tower bushings, and sometimes the pin bores get sloppy. Usually new pins and rod end bushings will tighten the swing considerably, although sometimes the wear is in the swing cylinder tube support bushings also. As with the brakes, many continue to use a machine with a sloppy hoe bushings.

Swing tower bushings are a little more work and often the pin is worn too. If the tower is rigged up properly such as with a hoist, this job isn't too bad. The swing tower is pushed sideways just enough to access the bushings.

Tx has good advice regarding the pump test. If you get stuck bad, that's the first thing you will think of.

Changing gears is best accomplished using the 'clutch' pedal.

Good tires are important, make sure they are loader tires. Better to sink money into a hoe with good tires than bad tires.

A very common area for repair welds is the cross-member connecting the loader arms, just behind the bucket. These get braced and patched all over. Also the loader frames, behind the oil drain plugs, good place for an oil leak.

The makeshift fenders will affect the resale value, but the 430 or 530 farm tractor may use similar fenders. Phil

 

[whf4]

Sounds like a go..... you guys are in for a lot of questions.... I did push down with the hoe pretty hard and the machine started coming up off the ground. I'll stress it a little more this weekend.

In fact, I think it probably was welded at the loader arm cross brace..... there oughtn't to be diamond plate there, right

I'll take another look this weekend.

I'll be looking for operator and service manuals next

 

[Phil]

Posting a picture would be good, maybe more comments/advice on the machine you are interested in. To be honest, there are just so many areas to check out. If the engine was really stone cold when started at that temperature, that is a good sign. It's hard to find a CK or B that hasn't been welded up at the loader cross-member. Check for the loader arm assembly to see if it's bent, the frame will be closer to the rad guard on one side than on the other. Listen for a whine in the transaxle when moving it. With the engine at about a quarter throttle, front bucket down, and the dipper straight down, the machine should lift both back wheels off the ground easily. Better to do this test when the hydraulics have been used for a while.

Check the rad for coolant, it's hard to see the level with that baffle, so take some coolant with you. A rad will not pump coolant out the overflow if the level is very low.

Check the outrigger cylinder rods also, they get bent and the chrome scratched. Firm price or not, try an offer, it is the middle of the winter and these are bad times. Good luck, Phil

 

[tx_swordguy]

I did testing on the hyd pump as best I could and thought I had a good pump. It apparently was going out when I bought it. I found one online for $600. The hardest part of replacing it was finding a shop that could re-flare the 3/4" heavy steel line. The new pump was about 1/2" different in position and the solid line would not go on. Took me 2 days of searching to find someone that could do the job. Made a world of difference in power and speed. I think you have some room for repairs at the price he is asking. Just remember it is an old machine and there WILL be repairs. New backhoes can cost in some cases 40-50K so as long as you are going into it knowing the repairs will come up, you should be ok

 

[whf4]

I am factoring in about $2500 in repairs in first year. The only thing that scares me is that I don't know jack about diesels. I probably don't know jack about anything else, either, but if my 92 chevy's engine don't start, I know where to start looking. Diesel? Don't know from Adam.

 

[whf4]

pics from craigslist ad

Here are the pics form the craigslist ad, FWIW.

If you know a diesel mechanic in NE Ohio who would accept cash to take a look at the machine this upcoming sat am, please pm me.

 

[tx_swordguy]

diesels are easy. fuel, air, compression= run. If it won't start, loosen the injecters and crank it until fuel comes out and tighten back up. It will usually start then. That mostly happens only when you change the filters or it runs out of fuel.They are usually bullet proof, especially if you get one that runs when you buy it. Occasionally if it gets too cold to start you can use ether, but be REALLY careful. Pull the air cleaner off and give it just a short burst (like 1/2 a second tops) then crank her up and they will usually start.

 

[bobcatfixeruper]

Ether?

diesels are easy. fuel, air, compression= run. If it won't start, loosen the injecters and crank it until fuel comes out and tighten back up. It will usually start then. That mostly happens only when you change the filters or it runs out of fuel.They are usually bullet proof, especially if you get one that runs when you buy it. Occasionally if it gets too cold to start you can use ether, but be REALLY careful. Pull the air cleaner off and give it just a short burst (like 1/2 a second tops) then crank her up and they will usually start.

Hello, just putting in my two cents worth here! The hardware (pistons - top down to the top ring land area) in most diesel engines are not very supportive of the use of ether. I think you will find in most service/shop manuals stating DO NOT USE ETHER! I have seen major engine damage from use of ether (fractured piston egdes on top) . The best way to start a really cold diesel engine is to open the air intake boot and carefully place a lit propane / map torch in the airway to allow heating of the air going into the engine. Be sure not to do this in a plastic intake boot ie: the air clearner area.. or you could melt or damage plastic parts. This proceedure works very well and is the safest way, if your engine has no functioning glow plugs or manifold heating systems. Just food for thought!