Machine Comparisons

[EquipmentEditor]

Car&Driver and Consumer Reports help consumers choose products. Would heavy equipment users like to have similar information? I would guess that would be a resounding "YES" :bouncegri

So what would you like to see? Given that head-to-head comparisons are not possible without giving up on advertising (that means readers pay for the subscription, ala Consumer Reports), what information would really help users?

How much data collection would be needed and what tests? Is it important to measure production exactly, making sure all variables are equal? Does dirt, for example, have to be exactly the same consistency for each machine. Does each machine have to be performing to verifiable specs?

Or would an independent operator's opinion be enough?

What exactly would you need to see in order to find an article interesting or, more important, useful?

Let 'er rip...

 

[ILLICEMAN]

great idea

THERE ARE SEVERAL MAG. THAT DO THIS ALREADY.
IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE IF YOU HAD A GOOD OPERATOR THAT KNOWS THAT TYPE OF MACHINE VERY WELL IT WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO.
WHILE IT WOULD BE COSTLEY TO USE EQUIPMENT YOU HAD TO RENT.
ANYWAY GO FOR IT...:usa

 

[digger242j]

The forum rules say:

Posting in ALL CAPS is prohibited. Members in violation will receive one warning, after which any further posts in ALL CAPS will be removed.

Please don't make me have to do any actual work here...

 

[jmac]

Digger, you do work? I thought you spent alll your time on the damn internet.

 

[PSDF350]

Car&Driver and Consumer Reports help consumers choose products. Would heavy equipment users like to have similar information? I would guess that would be a resounding "YES" :bouncegri

So what would you like to see? Given that head-to-head comparisons are not possible without giving up on advertising (that means readers pay for the subscription, ala Consumer Reports), what information would really help users?

How much data collection would be needed and what tests? Is it important to measure production exactly, making sure all variables are equal? Does dirt, for example, have to be exactly the same consistency for each machine. Does each machine have to be performing to verifiable specs?

Or would an independent operator's opinion be enough?

What exactly would you need to see in order to find an article interesting or, more important, useful?

Let 'er rip...

Head to head would be great, but costly. You could try like a survey sent out in a mag to be sent back. UNH did a ongoing survey like that for the forest industry to find out what was what is and were it wants to be. They were able to gather alot of useful info.

 

[digger242j]

... I thought you spent alll your time on the damn internet.

If it seems that way, it's because this is the only bad habit I can afford...

 

[Blademan]

This reminds me of a debate i got myself into over the net about American Trucking magazines , and how compared to European trucking magazines , where just filled with shiney chrome and advertisement . The European mags really do put the trucks up to the same everything and measure everything . They take there own horsepower ratings , as well as real road tests to determine everything from what gear they are on at a particular spot on a long hill , to fuel milage and even temps and such . VERY thorough . I have yet to see a direct comparison between a Mack or Kenworth done so thoroghly . Why ? Because American truck magazines ( at least the ones here on our newsstands ) are more interested in selling advertisment space , and cater to the manufactores , then putting out real info on the trucks themselves .

Would I like to see side by side equipment comparisons , absolutely ! The cynic in me though thinks that will never happen .
You mention Car and Driver ? Well , I don't read many car magazines , but I do read lots of truck magainzes , especially 4x4 ones or , as of late , the new diesel ones . What do I think about them ?? Well , the only 4x4 magazines I've ever really given ANY repect to was the Australian one , 4WDrive Monthly . Talk about being brutally honest . You would NEVER be able to pull it off here without lawsuits up the ying-yang . The funny thing is , you can't get almost none of The Ozzie trucks here , but I still love the magazine because they are not afraid to call a spade a spade . And another remarkable side effect ?? Their vehicles are much better for it . They ( the magazines ) don't just cater to those who believe the hyperbol and marketing gurus ( sheeple ? ) , so when a manufactor gets torn apart about a weak product , they make the changes that makes better vehicles . Puts the pressure to make a better mousetrap on the manufactors rather then them just catering to the highest advertisng budget .

Soooo , show me how you intend to overcome your fear of retalation from lawsuits , and I'll be the first to get a subscription .
Please , please make a magazine for me . Thats' also why I'm here reading GREAT threads like the one about the Cat D8's ,etc . The experiences and indepth knowledge AND the ability to speak freely about them is what makes me so grateful to the men here . :notworthy :notworthy
I don't want another magazine that just caters to the manufactors , but to the OPERATORS or Company owners who want as close to truth as you can get .
I'd like direct comparisons between similar sized equipment . Same dirt , same operator . On hills , on slopes , or even a average time for pushing scrapers etc . Even do a long term test and maitenance comparison . Heck , even order in parts and see how long it takes from the dealers ! Costs and fuel consumption ?? How about comfort and ride ? Throw a bunch of loaders in a pit and settle things once and for all ! Have a little fun too . Throw a couple of dozers in a ring and see who wins in a pull off .
Or how about traveling the countryside and actually talking to operators and owner ? Lots of construction going on , find out why certain equipment was chosen , and how they are holding up .

Again , and this is just my opinion , screw the advertisers . Make a Heavy Equipment Magazine for the owners/operators . Start small and humble and honest and sell to those who really care about the equipment , US . :drinkup :notworthy

Anyway , forgive the poor grammer and spelling and such , I'm battleing a painfull throbbing toothache and my meds are potent !
Cheers

 

[Squizzy246B]

Blademan is on the money, but I know that some magazines down here have taken a real pasting for calling a spade a spade. Case in point was a really good fishing mag we had that simply reported on the OMC Johnson/Evinrude debacle with the FICHT engines when they all blew up.....it really hurt that mag and nearly sent them broke due to the loss of advertising...anyways...OMC went broke so thats just desserts.

I'd add one thing to Bladey's sentiment...this forum goes one step further....equipment comparisons can't really tell you the most important things you need to know about machines...and thats reliability (over a long period) and dealer/manu'f support. This forum does that to a large degree. I think a lot of todays equipment is that good that almost all makes are truly capable of getting the job done....some just continue to do it longer than others.

I'd love to see a half doz excavators all lined up for a side by side comparison...that would be terrific.

 

[Steve Frazier]

Car&Driver and Consumer Reports help consumers choose products. Would heavy equipment users like to have similar information? I would guess that would be a resounding "YES" :bouncegri

So what would you like to see?

I'd like to see an equipment magazine that actually mimics the two you've mentioned. I used to be an avid reader of Car & Driver, I liked it because they told it like it is, pointing out both a vehicles attributes as well as its weaknesses. They had a policy of advertisers be damned, money spent on advertising would not influence how the articles were written. Consumer Reports is much the same way.

I have yet to see an equipment magazine make actual comparisons between similar machines. Even where an author has had an opportunity to run several brands sided by side, by the time you have finished reading the article you would think each machine is the best that could possibly be out there from all the fluff written. After reading an article, a potential buyer is no closer to making a purchase decision than before the article.

It's interesting how manufacturers fear a little bad press. Instead of seeing it as constructive criticism on how they could improve their product, they see it as an attack on there profits instead.

 

[ILLICEMAN]

not

sure am glad that the important take on my message was caps. too bad but then every forum must have rules.
only hope that good langauage should be only used.........
good luck on your forum....:notworthy

 

[Steve Frazier]

ILLICEMAN, our request was certainly not meant to offend you, but rather to have your posts be more legible. Research has determined that text in all caps is more difficult to read than the conventional Caps/small case text. Our goal here is to provide a site that is easily legible and enjoyable to all, hence the requirement of a traditional font. Posting in all caps is also considered SHOUTING on the internet and might misconstrue aggression to others. We prefer to ward off controversy wherever we can. And by the way, we also do regulate the language that may be used here as well.

Stick around, read up a while, you might find that you actually like it here. Many others have!:thumbsup

 

[EquipmentEditor]

Other Mags

THERE ARE SEVERAL MAG. THAT DO THIS ALREADY.

Could you provide examples of magazines that do this?

 

[EquipmentEditor]

Unh

UNH did a ongoing survey like that for the forest industry to find out what was what is and were it wants to be. They were able to gather alot of useful info.

What does UNH stand for?

 

[ILLICEMAN]

Yes

Could you provide examples of magazines that do this?

i will have to go back as alot of them have stopped since i just moved.i will get back to you thanks

 

[EquipmentEditor]

Long-term comparisons

equipment comparisons can't really tell you the most important things you need to know about machines...and thats reliability (over a long period) and dealer/manu'f support. This forum does that to a large degree. I think a lot of todays equipment is that good that almost all makes are truly capable of getting the job done....some just continue to do it longer than others.

Squizzy--Are you saying uptime and reliability and service are more important than "features & benefits" (That's marketing-ese, by the way )?

I've heard people say they don't buy an excavator, they buy a hole in the ground. Seems that you're saying most excavators (or whatever) will provide the hole, but not all will provide the hole when you need it...everytime you need it.

 

[Steve Frazier]

Down time is extremely costly, I don't think a lot of people consider just how costly it is. Not only is the machine not earning the income that you expect from it, but also it is costing money in repairs at the same time. If you have laborers on the job, there is more lost revenue while the machine is down.

A feature packed machine is nice if it increases productivity, but if a less fancy machine has more up time resulting in a better overall production rate, then that is the better money maker.

 

[Squizzy246B]

Squizzy--Are you saying uptime and reliability and service are more important than "features & benefits" (That's marketing-ese, by the way )?

Pretty much, on account that todays machines (we sometimes forget) are so good that they will get the job done, so (from my point of view) the reliability, service and support are the bigger grey area in a purchase. Of course we base our decision on the features and benefits a machine has to offer, but these are pretty self evident. A magazine review that tells me all about the features of a particular machine is great...it saves me time in the purchase roundabout. But it often can't tell me what the voices of experience can tell me here on HEF.

I've heard people say they don't buy an excavator, they buy a hole in the ground. Seems that you're saying most excavators (or whatever) will provide the hole, but not all will provide the hole when you need it...everytime you need it.

Its the ongoing cost of the hole....but what Steve said. I have 8 weeks work booked up in front of me....some of those are jobs are for new clients who can give me work which will account for at least 4 months of the year. No more running doing quotes, advertising etc...just good steady top dollar work...I just cannot afford to have my excavator out of service in that period if I want to get more work from these guys. The only thing that should slow me down in the next 8 weeks is the weather...not sitting on my butt waiting for a part to come from Singapore...or where ever.

We all like to have the machine/brand we want...and we want the best deal when we are buying.....with the features we want etc etc...but at the end of the day it doesn't matter two squirts of frogs urine what make it is, how old it is or whatever....just that the job got done safely and efficiently. An unreliable, poorly supported machine will break your heart...and your business.

 

[16H]

My wife buys me a european mag simply called Earthmovers which does very good articles on new gear like excavators site dumpers small dozers and stuff like that they also do profiles on machines both new and old from companies over there where they talk to the owners and operators, I have only been given 8-10 of these mags as they are fairly hard to find but some of the articles I have seen have been about the new Abeko 870
,the new Liebherr 9250 and the huge green Beeleen cat 395UHD yes 395 based on a 385 but on steroids, also they do bits on companies that have modified machines to suit their needs from mulching excavators to peat digging machines
About the wife buying my magazines I cant be trusted with money!! If you do happen to see the mag around grab it and have a look,

 

[PSDF350]

What does UNH stand for?

University of New Hampshire.

 

[surfer-joe]

Big difference comparing a few 30-50 grand cars and trucks, all easily transportable, with earthmovers costing a million and up, each! Even comparing OTR trucks would be a big bill for somebody. And consider the size of the interested market....

The old Nebraska tractor tests were great. They were very reliable on total information and usually listed all the specs including those gathered from actual usage. But the tractors were comparatively small then.

I'd like to see this for big iron, but as I say, cost is just prohibitive.

Check this out: www.earthmoversmagazine.co.uk