My big 14M steering system problem

[Pep Joe]

Alright thanks.
I won't forget to remove the valve resolver from the actuator if there is need to change only the actuator.

The workshop mechanic want to lose the complete steering valve now for us to check the condition of the actuator spool.
I will post the result here.
I read how Kxmulisha resolved his 140M all most same steering problem.
His thread on the 140M is a guide too.

 

[Nige]

The workshop mechanic want to lose the complete steering valve now for us to check the condition of the actuator spool.

I assume you mean to disassemble the main valve, because as far as I know the actuator is sealed. Make sure you post loads of photos. I've never seen the inside of one of those valves. With only 8300 operating hours on the machine I would expect it to look like new.
TBH I think he's wasting his time but if that's what is necessary to convice the customer to buy a new actuator then it is what it is.

 

[Pep Joe]

I assume you mean to disassemble the main valve, because as far as I know the actuator is sealed. Make sure you post loads of photos. I've never seen the inside of one of those valves. With only 8300 operating hours on the machine I would expect it to look like new.

Yes he did disassembled it. some of the spools where not free, he did some servicing and assembled back and mounted back. We experienced a little improvement, the primary and secondary steering failure indicator lights went off, we thought the problem had fixed, we drove the grader round the yard but it still failed and lights came up again while we were still driving it. shut off the machine and started it again after a while and light went off again and steering system work and again light came up after a while and steering system stop responding again with a "steering system failure" indicating on the messenger. Sorry no plenty pictures, wasn't with him all through.

 

[Nige]

That's an old-style actuator in your photo. As I said before bearing in mind the 2012 build date of your machine I suspect it is probably original and would be the exact same Part Number that caused all our steering problems. Because our machines worked 24/7 we saw the same issue many years ago but at probably similar operating hours to the 8000+ on your machine.

Compare your actuator with the photo of a new replacedment posted by @kxmulisha in his thread. The new-style actuator is smaller and a different shape although it mounts to the steering valve in the same way.

I have money riding on a bet that the actuator is the root cause of your steering problem.

 

[Pep Joe]

That's an old-style actuator in your photo. As I said before bearing in mind the 2012 build date of your machine I suspect it is probably original and would be the exact same Part Number that caused all our steering problems. Because our machines worked 24/7 we saw the same issue many years ago but at probably similar operating hours to the 8000+ on your machine.

Compare your actuator with the photo of a new replacedment posted by @kxmulisha in his thread. The new-style actuator is smaller and a different shape although it mounts to the steering valve in the same way.

I have money riding on a bet that the actuator is the root cause of your steering problem.

They have placed order for a new complete valve with this part number 3800405. I wanted this part number that you gave 308-0935 but they said they had a problem like this before and it this part number they used 3800405.
They mostly wanted to be sure it is the valve problem which I have confirmed for them.
Thank you all for your contributions.
Now we await when the valve is ready and hopefully the 14M steering problem be a thing of the past.

we saw the same issue many years ago but at probably similar operating hours to the 8000+ on your machine.

What was the solution then?

 

[Nige]

What was the solution then?

A new actuator.

 

[Nige]

They have placed order for a new complete valve with this part number 3800405.g

That is the (old) Part Number for the actuator. What they will actually receive is 559-3552 because that is the latest Part Number. When it arrives take a photo, it should look exactly like the photo of the new replacement posted by @kxmulisha in his thread.

 

[Nige]

They have placed order for a new complete valve with this part number 3800405

Don't worry. 380-0405 upgrades to 309-0935 so that is what they should receive. There is an even later Part Number available, 571-6901 so they might even receive that.

Correction: They have ordered a complete new steering valve. Jeez I wish I had their cheque book..........

It will no doubt fix the issue but I shudder to think how much the new valve is going to cost when a change of a $1000 actuator on the existing valve would have solved the problem.

 

[Pep Joe]

Don't worry. 380-0405 upgrades to 309-0935 so that is what they should receive. There is an even later Part Number available, 571-6901 so they might even receive that.

Correction: They have ordered a complete new steering valve. Jeez I wish I had their cheque book..........

It will no doubt fix the issue but I shudder to think how much the new valve is going to cost when a change of a $1000 actuator on the existing valve would have solved the problem.

Don't worry. 380-0405 upgrades to 309-0935 so that is what they should receive. There is an even later Part Number available, 571-6901 so they might even receive that.

Alright.

Correction: They have ordered a complete new steering valve

Thanks.

It will no doubt fix the issue but I shudder to think how much the new valve is going to cost when a change of a $1000 actuator on the existing valve would have solved the problem.

Not so sure the actuator alone is the problem so they thought it was the best for a complete steering valve.

 

[Pep Joe]

A new actuator.

On all M series steering problem you have had?

 

[Nige]

On all M series steering problem you have had?

Like your machine we had a lot of the very early M-Series graders that were built from 2008 onwards. All of those early machines without exception suffered from "steering problems".

The reliability of the steering valve actuator (NOTE only the actuator, not the complete steering valve) was a problem until around 2015 if I recall correctly. The first long-term actuator Part Number that I would consider as "reliable" was 471-7935, yet even that Part Number was replaced by the latest 559-3552 Part Number in November 2019, so obviously the factory did not consider it as sufficently reliable or it would not have been replaced.

M-Series graders built from 2015 onwards should not suffer from the steering valve actuator problems.

 

[Nige]

Any updates.? Have you recevied the new steering valve yet.?

 

[Pep Joe]

Any updates.? Have you recevied the new steering valve yet.?

No, we are still expecting it. Thanks for your concern. Will not fail to update when it is ready.

 

[Pep Joe]

Based on your location I would suggest that you order the latest 559-3552 Part Number. There is a small chance that your dealer may have an "old" 471-4935 in his parts stock and you do not really want that one - you want the latest "Gen 7" design of actuator.

Yes you can change just the actuator without changing anything else on the steering valve.
Be sure to change the five seals between the actuator and the body of the steering valve. Using the old ones is pretty much a guarantee that it will leak after installation.

Take a look at this thread regarding a steering valve actuator failure on a 140M. Some of the Events/Codes are identical to yours and so was the diagnosis - a defective actuator.
Note also that this guy replaced the resistor in addition to the actuator.
Please note carefully the comments made in Posts #8 & #17 regarding the shuttle valve/resolver which is not part of the actuator but will probably be stuck to it when the old actuator is removed from the steering valve. The resolver should be removed from the old actuator and installed in the new actuator before installtion. Also note the fact that the new 559-3552 actuator comes complete with a set of new seals.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/140m-steering-fault.88621/#post-964785

Long waited. I finally received the primary steering valve actuator today. P/N is 5593552
I will be fixing it soon and I won't fail to come give feedback as I have promised.
Below is the picture.

 

[Nige]

I was only wondering the other day how you were getting on with your steering issue.

 

[nicky 68a]

Very intresting post by the OP and nice to be updated

 

[Acecadet]

I have encountered many of the same problems on 24m graders. Most of the time on our high hour units the spool that pushes on the module gets stuck in the bore. A good rubbing with scotch bright gets it going again. Any small deviation in spool position that the controller doesn’t agree with and it’s all over. Such a complicated way to steer a machine. How we ever landed on the moon I’ll never understand.

 

[Pep Joe]

I was only wondering the other day how you were getting on with your steering issue.

Was abandoned until now. We are currently fixing the valve actuator

 

[Pep Joe]

That's an old-style actuator in your photo. As I said before bearing in mind the 2012 build date of your machine I suspect it is probably original and would be the exact same Part Number that caused all our steering problems. Because our machines worked 24/7 we saw the same issue many years ago but at probably similar operating hours to the 8000+ on your machine.

Compare your actuator with the photo of a new replacedment posted by @kxmulisha in his thread. The new-style actuator is smaller and a different shape although it mounts to the steering valve in the same way.

I have money riding on a bet that the actuator is the root cause of your steering problem.

That is how you would have won all stakes if anyone put their money on it. You were so sure that the actuator was the problem after all my explanations.
I cannot thank you enough for the time you took in making sure my big 14M motor grader steering problem came to an end today. I want you to know that I appreciate. Thank you.

To everyone that contributed, I appreciate you all.
Yesterday I changed the actuator. We wanted driving it to test even though the fault codes had cleared but one of the implement hoses got burst and they had to replace it and others that were bad as well.

Today we drove it round many times and steering system is working perfectly now. No more fault codes. I'm as happy as a newly wedded couple now.
anyone might want to carry out all my troubleshooting process when have same problem and same fault codes next time. Thanks again.

 

[Pep Joe]

View attachment 276969
Make no mistake of forgetting to remove the circled from the old actuator to the new one when you what to fix a new one. In the attached file below.