need advice getting a stuck pivot pin out

[Thadman81]

I have a genie GTH-5519 compact telehandler. The tilt/level compensation cylinder lost an eye and needs to get repaired, and I'm trying to remove it, and it does *not* want to come out. The manual simply says, 'use a soft drift or hammer to knock it out'... XD

For starters, (part of) the retaining bolt fell out in my hand when I went to remove it. It appeared to already be mangled, I barely touched it. seemed broken off at the pin/housing interface. I am guessing that part of it is still in there, the part that is inside the pin. Inspecting in the hole, it looks like the pin has spun inside the housing already and all I can see is solid pin - no bolt end, no bolt hole.

After trying lots of other things, I put a 20 ton jack blocked against the inside of the frame to try to press the pin out, and it only moved about 1/4". the movement it did do was with little force, then it wouldn't budge. see photo of what the pressure did to the block I used to get the jack level. While there was pressure on the pin from the jack, the cylinder would not rotate on the pin without a huge amount of force. cylinder eye was pushed hard into the opposite ear of the mounting brackets. so it seems like the pin is stuck on/in the eye of the cylinder somehow.

so, I'm running out of clever ideas. I've been turning wrenches for 30 years (mostly automotive, but some smaller equipment) and this is a new one. I imagined that even if there were bits of that retaining bolt still in there, 20 tons of force would shear them off. no dice. I considered trying to drill out the remains of the retaining pin, but it doesn't seem like it's even exposed anymore, I don't have a way to get a drill bit into it, and lastly, it doesn't seem that's the problem anyway.

what would you do?

 

[Deere500a]

Retainer bolt removed the pin could be rusted in the bore,heat & Pb blaster.

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

Oh, those were always fun to work on as rentals.

Get that nest out of there and hit it with a torch. A real air hammer can try to knock it loose and get it to start moving. It's most likely going to need a shock to break it loose before a jack will start to move it, and hoping it didn't wear a lip in that will hang up without the rod perfectly centered.

I think the last of those I personally worked on needed the pin lanced out.

 

[HarleyHappy]

You could try and blow the retaining bolt out, after a serious cleaning, with a torch. If desperate, you could slice the sides of the ear, where the retaining bolt go through, against the pin and cut and weld a new boss on after.
Probably a lip worn between the cylinder and the ear hanging you up.

 

[Thadman81]

I realized after some digging that these have a bushing built into the eye, and I think the bushing is rusted onto the pin even though it swivels freely inside the eye.

Get that nest out of there and hit it with a torch. A real air hammer can try to knock it loose and get it to start moving. It's most likely going to need a shock to break it loose before a jack will start to move it, and hoping it didn't wear a lip in that will hang up without the rod perfectly centered.

I think the last of those I personally worked on needed the pin lanced out.

I did smack it with an old steel farm wagon axle as hard as I could. about 20 lbs of solid metal rod.

I have been afraid that I'll need to cut or melt something... wondering if, since I need to rebuild the cylinder with a new rod anyway, if cutting the eye off the cylinder might be the best option... I don't think I'm up to gouging out a pin that size. I haven't tried a torch yet because I was avoiding removing all the hoses in the area (including the fuel hoses that are run directly under that eye, between the ears)

I was wondering about using a mag drill on the pin... the pin is very close to the frame on the left side, and there's an access hole there.

for now I've tied the cylinder out of the way and I'm going to keep running the machine as is and squirt more ATF+acetone on the joint every week or so.

 

[MarshallPowerGen]

I was wondering about using a mag drill on the pin... the pin is very close to the frame on the left side, and there's an access hole there.

If you can get a mag drill in there and then tap the hole you might be able to press/pull it out. Think we tried welding a nut on to pull it with no luck.

I remember access issues with a sawed off sledge and when my bosses' CP717 wouldn't move it, that's when it went to the lance.

 

[smifwal]

Could try something like this but put the piston of the jack against the pin if the piston is bigger/same size put a piece of solid round smaller than the pin and push it through

 

[tractormech]

You're in deep on that project. You need to be sure all of the anchor bolt is out. You won't shear it off with a jack or anything like that. The pin may have grooves worn that make it hard to move- I don't know. I also don't know what you have for tools- porta powers, welders,thermal lance, etc. If you don't have that stuff you are possibly going to have a hard time. Looking at the room that you do have to work with, you "MIGHT" get a long carbide toothed Milwaukee Diablo blade for thick metal ( I'd get a 12 inch blade) and a Sawzall and cut the pin between the pin bosses and the cylinder. It'll take some time, but run it SLOW, moving the saw in and out to utilize as much of the blade as possible,along with oil and a paint brush for frequent lubrication and keeping it cool. It will cut it for you, it'll just take some time. No flames to worry about either. If you can get a hollow ram Porto power and weld a nut to the end of the pin you might pull it out. Good luck.

 

[shopguy]

Bet it has what i think is called a spherical bearing,cat used them a lot on 6 way dozer blades. Why do you need that end off anyway?

 

[AMBMike]

Why do you need that end off anyway?

Is that end needing rebuilt too? If not it looks like you may have room to pivot the cylinder and remove the gland and pull the rod.

I've done this on several cylinders that had a spherical bearing frozen to the pin but otherwise in good shape.

 

[Thadman81]

Is that end needing rebuilt too? If not it looks like you may have room to pivot the cylinder and remove the gland and pull the rod.

I've done this on several cylinders that had a spherical bearing frozen to the pin but otherwise in good shape.

that's not a bad idea. I think I do have room to get the gland off and just pull the rod. I did want to get the valve body tested because it might have something to do with the failure of the rod end, but I can maybe get it off with it in frame.

 

[Thadman81]

Looking at the room that you do have to work with, you "MIGHT" get a long carbide toothed Milwaukee Diablo blade for thick metal ( I'd get a 12 inch blade) and a Sawzall and cut the pin between the pin bosses and the cylinder.

I may try that. it's tight, but I've done worse. I don't have a thermal lance, and as I said, I tried a 20 ton jack on it braced against the frame to little effect. A portapower would be a waste of time, as would any more complicated attempt to use a jack like drilling the pin and threading it, etc...

 

[LCA078]

Well, I'm looking at this through the eyes of a machinist. If you have access to the tools, you can make a simple split connection for the end of your cylinder rod. Similar to the end of a piston rod that connects to the crankshaft. Find a piece of scrap plate or drop that's the same thickness as the thickness of the broken eye. Bore out the center to clamp over the pin, drill a couple holes for the clamping bolts and then split it on the saw. Weld it to the rod end and bolt on the pin that you never removed. Of course there's a bit more detail than that but the concept is simple. Fortunately or unfortunately, I grew up with a dad who was master machinist (old school, no CNC) so I just look at stuff the way he taught me.

Either way, best of luck with your pickle- it looks like a doozy.

 

[LCA078]

Just thought about something: Instead of making a new cap, you might get by using a scrap connecting rod from a heavy duty engine (I'm sure someone here has a pile of them laying around). Whack off the small end and weld the big end to the end of your rod. Might have to insert a custom bushing to compensate for the mis-matching diameters but may be easier than trying to remove a stuck pin.

Again, just looking at this through the eyes of a machinist....