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New to Me dozer

Yellowirondude

Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Eastern NC
Occupation
USMC Heavy Equipment Operator
So keeping with my posts of "showing" off my gear from work (USMC), I guess now would be the time to show off our new dozer. The Marines went from the time tested D7G to the new Deere 850J :pointhead . God only knows why they did it. :eek2
GEDC0217.jpg
From far away
GEDC0218.jpg
GEDC0220.jpg
cabin view

Regards and Enjoy,
YID
 

Mbdog

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
10
Location
manitoba, canada
New to forum, but looks great. Looking at purchasing a cat mid 90's D5H in 5-7000 hr range. LGP isn't important to me. First time dozer purchaser. Any testimonials out there on performance, what to avoid, what to look for, etc. Good, bad or otherwise please.
 

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
sounds to me like a giant step backwards. What do they do when the electronics quite at the worst possible time. None of that on a D7G to go to hell.
 

tripper_174

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
173
Location
Manitoba, Canada
Occupation
Heavy Equipment Operator Trainer
Wow...a JD? The USMC is a tough outfit and deserve a tough tractor, Caterpillar...period.
 

pp13bnos

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
354
Location
Oregon
I have to say thats a awesome looking machine in those colors. Whats that colored called btw?
 

Yellowirondude

Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Eastern NC
Occupation
USMC Heavy Equipment Operator
The color? Depends on who you ask. Its obviously Green, but the NoBama Regime defines it as Olive Drab CARC (Chemical Agent Resistive Coating).

Yes a J.D. See the government has a service life for any type or piece of gear which is 20 years. At the 20 year mark, the government accepts bids from national companies. Cheapest bidder gets it and then that gear is sent to Aberdeen to be tested and outfitted for service. CAT obviously is the way to go, but unfortunately, the people who do this bidding deal have never planted their 5th point of contact in a seat and tried out all of them. But CAT has had a short stint (the last 20 years). Before that, our dozers had names like Euclid, EIMCO, and Terex to name a few.

Most of my Marines, yours truly included, dont like the machine at all. The tracks seem more narrow, the "finger tip" controls work GREAT, when there ISNT a load being pushed. And all these pilot sticks (vice a stick for your blade, a tranny stick, track clutches/brakes)....ALL GARBAGE. But I will continue to adapt and overcome. And when all the electronics go to hell, my plan anyways, is to grab my rifle, grab a satchel of C4 and blow that sucker in place. Saves me and my mechanic some time :D

Regards,
YID
 

Deereman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
440
Location
Georgia
The color? Depends on who you ask. Its obviously Green, but the NoBama Regime defines it as Olive Drab CARC (Chemical Agent Resistive Coating).

Yes a J.D. See the government has a service life for any type or piece of gear which is 20 years. At the 20 year mark, the government accepts bids from national companies. Cheapest bidder gets it and then that gear is sent to Aberdeen to be tested and outfitted for service. CAT obviously is the way to go, but unfortunately, the people who do this bidding deal have never planted their 5th point of contact in a seat and tried out all of them. But CAT has had a short stint (the last 20 years). Before that, our dozers had names like Euclid, EIMCO, and Terex to name a few.


Most of my Marines, yours truly included, dont like the machine at all. The tracks seem more narrow, the "finger tip" controls work GREAT, when there ISNT a load being pushed. And all these pilot sticks (vice a stick for your blade, a tranny stick, track clutches/brakes)....ALL GARBAGE. But I will continue to adapt and overcome. And when all the electronics go to hell, my plan anyways, is to grab my rifle, grab a satchel of C4 and blow that sucker in place. Saves me and my mechanic some time :D


Yellow, while I do appreciate what you do. A lot of what you said throughout and mainly in the second paragraph is your personal opinion. There is a pretty good size and hp difference between the D7 and a 850J/k not to mention the speed of the machine. Along with how easy things have been made to maintain and work on if necessary. Cat is not obviously the way to go anymore. And its not just who can build the cheapest machine. If cat really wanted to pull their weight around on this they could have dropped their price to compete.. But they chose not to.Along with other manufactures. I just wonder if you would like to get back to terex cable machines or one of the others. Then you might be glad at what you have. And if you go as far to blow up a machine that some of us pay for you deserve a shovel. Even if i had to run a cat for the usmc or army or whoever I would take the best of my ability to take care of it. Its kind of hard to say they are garbage when there are environments out there equal to or worse then what you put one through and they survive. i.e. U S and state forest service has hundreds if not thousands in service that go in and out or fires. Also, its not like you are getting a dozer for a contractor. Its made for the military. If the USMC ordered the machine with standard or narrow tracks and most of your guys prefer wide or wider tracks you should have asked for them. If you don't have a say in it, then blame the USMC for ordering the wrong setup. I will say that if you have a guy/gal that does the maintenance and they know what they are doing, take pride in doing their work ( like I know the USMC does)So if the machine does have a problem. It will be fixed right and fast. Vs down for weeks and not a clue how to fix it. That will make a big difference between you saying this machine is alright(or better then expected) and you hating it. I don't care who makes it today. It will eventually give you a little or alot of problems in those kind of environments. Cat might have had the best dozer back then but times have changed. U can't buy a D7G or the good ol 544e's and G's wheeled loader you had before you had the 624J/k's. I'm not here to bash you but like you said you have to adapt and overcome. Who's to say in the next 20 years you won't want to let go or your 850's!!??

Regards,
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
The Marines that run these machines have no say of any kind in how the machine is speced out. That is done at the Pentagon by people who have no idea about what they write and spec. As far as when the electronics go to hell and if it is in a combat situation than what Yellowirondude says is true. He will grab his rifle, as every Marine is a rifleman first and something else second, load it up with C4 and blow it up because that is what the military does to keep the enemy from capturing and equipment that could be turned around and used against them. Always been that way, always will.

A lot of military equipment has gotten to damned complicated for its own good just like the civilian versions which have way to much electronics and computers on them with way too much software in them that was written by people that have never even seen a machine let alone run one. Case in point, the finger tip controls with software that the operator can adjust for his own taste as opposed to the operator before before him.

Our military deserves the best damn equipment money can buy regardless of price Deereman. It has to be rough, tough and dependable. In my experience this kind of electronics and computer stuff is not. You don't need a grenade launcher, morter or small rocket launcher to knock one of these out. Throw enough electrical interference, laser, or do anything you can to make the computer loose its mind and this thing is out of action. I know the shield the electronics to the end of the earth on military equipment but it is far from fool proof.

SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Deereman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
440
Location
Georgia
I get ya greg. Like I said i wasn't meaning no ruffling of the feathers. Glad you brought me to what he was saying. Yes I believe you are right. You do deserve the best. I can be pretty confident in saying that Deere has a hard machine to beat in that size class right now.. But whosever dozer you buy now has some if not alot of the same thing this one does on electronics. In either point, We can thank our government for both the problems that surround the this topic. EPA is part or the problem and the reason it has went electronic. The other part not ordering the right one for the right application..
Man I sure would hate to blow this or any machine up in the field. But I guess you have to do what you have to..:cool::D
 

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
If the federal government had any brains the military could easily be made exempt from the stupid damn EPA emissions standards on machines like this, and yes, you did ruffle my feathers as you probably gathered. No problem, I am already over that.

As I also mentioned the programs put into these machines be it Cat, Deere or whoever are done by software engineers hired by the manufacturer. These software engineers are a bunch of computer "whiz kids" who know nothing about the machine they write software for. Take them out, put them on a machine, make them get dirty, make them learn how to run it first, if that is even possible. Than let them go to work.

Same for the guys that design the machines. Make them work on them first so they can see what it is like to stand on their head on the radiator trying to get at something they are attempting to work on. This has gotten so bad it is almost impossible to check and add fluids on many macines.

I gather by your name "deereman" and comments that you probably wear Deere underwear and have aDeere tatoo on the right check of you butt just like mine are Caterpillar.

I am sure thay you and I could argue the virtues of Caterpillar and Deere until dooms day plus ten years. That is a product of our FREE capitalist society which enabled men like Mr. Deere, Best and Holt to go into business and prosper. That free capital society has prospered right along with our freedom, which is the envy of the entire world. It is the likes of "yellowirondude" and all the other fine young people who are or were part of the MS military for the past 200 plus years to insure that guys like you and me can argue about Deere verses Cat and prosper at the same time. Ain't life grand and thanks to every Mrine, Sailor, Airman and Soldier in the Marine Corps, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force and Army.

GOD LOVE UM ALL AND THANKS TO EACH AND EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!







11111111111111111
 

Yellowirondude

Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Eastern NC
Occupation
USMC Heavy Equipment Operator
Gents,

Thanks for the feedback. Starting off I guess, in some of the situations I have been in since the dozer got fielded, I WOULD prefer a old cable machine...lol. Not to mention the electronics portions. I have had some of my fondest and most productive memories forged on older iron. I would accept the challenge to hop back on a 8v71 EIMCO or a brain rattlin Euclid and see if my production rates still apply. True, the Forest Dept and State Dept's might drive these into forest fires. How about driving (or operating) through soil profiles that have river like qualities...lets say the sewage laiden soil of Haiti where 70% of their soil is pure soup. Or perhaps Jordan, where the sand on the ground is so fine, its dust, but still has its abrasive qualities of regular beach sand? That being said, I have pushed soil over the better part of the globe, east to west, north to south, not just where there is a war. We do take care of our gear, but are reserved to make such comments from time to time based off of our gear. Marines especially, as the other Branches dont have this issue. Take for example the Army. They have many different makes, models and spec'd packages for "certain" contingencies. Then those spec'd machines sit there and wait for "What If's" to happen. Twenty years later it happens again. Then of course is the Air Force. Their H.E. is whatever they need. They get into theatre, RED HORSE deems the machines needed, and within 2 business weeks, new Yellow gear is brought forward on a lease type agreement. The fundamentals for the AF (theory of operation) is based off of Marine and Army gear, but the gear itself is rented or leased. Navy basically has a couple more types per gear, but its all the new stuff (Tri-Tracked dozer [bogey suspension] and whatnot). I too take pride in my mechanics work, and in the past decade and a half have started a passion for diesel. Heck, probably the reason why I drive and do my own work on my cummins pickup. Now the downside, my mechanics are MECHANICS....not technicians. They can troubleshoot (the old mechanical way [its what they are taught in school]) and hang parts. But when a computer goes down, we now require FSR's (Field Service Representatives) to do that. Talk about more money used.....which by the way....the average Marine who goes to theatre for 7 months leaves with 10-15k money. A FSR after 12 months? 190K+. Hmmm. I digress. As far as fast? Parts are taking longer to get and are in short supply...as everything is new. So a machine will take longer to become "UP" rather then "Down". No Beuno. You also mentioned a G series loader? Sorry Sir, never seen one. Air Force maybe...possibly Army. Not a Marine owned Machine. It was said later in the forum about being rough and tough. When my Marines got the new dozer, THEY WERE ESTATIC there was a freezing cold AC. Little did they know, it wasnt for them. It was for the computer(s). So long story short, autumn rolls around and they wanna push some material. Hang the doors open for some good ol NC weather, and what do ya know. The computer starts acting up when nothing was wrong with the physical machine. FSR deemed it as a dirty motherboard. Enough of the Rant....carry on

Semper Fi,
YID
 

Greg

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,175
Location
Wi
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
Well said "Leatherneck." A few months ago I would have wrapped up the tech manual for a Cat 621B scraper and sent it to a soldier in Afganistan if I had known where to send it. He was on here asking questions they were having with a 621B over there that no one could fix and had no reference material to trouble shoot it. As for a Deere 544 G wheel loader, good machine but nothing spectacular.

The Marines in my experience are expected to deliver the most with the least. Looks like some things never change. Your statement about Marine mechanics vs. FSR's is another example of what is wrong with the whole damn system. Love your statement about the electronics and the cab doors open. In other words the crap can't take the dust. The fricking Pentagon filled with political hacks and academy pukes will never get it.
 

Deereman

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
440
Location
Georgia
If the federal government had any brains the military could easily be made exempt from the stupid damn EPA emissions standards on machines like this, and yes, you did ruffle my feathers as you probably gathered. No problem, I am already over that.

As I also mentioned the programs put into these machines be it Cat, Deere or whoever are done by software engineers hired by the manufacturer. These software engineers are a bunch of computer "whiz kids" who know nothing about the machine they write software for. Take them out, put them on a machine, make them get dirty, make them learn how to run it first, if that is even possible. Than let them go to work.

Same for the guys that design the machines. Make them work on them first so they can see what it is like to stand on their head on the radiator trying to get at something they are attempting to work on. This has gotten so bad it is almost impossible to check and add fluids on many macines.

I gather by your name "deereman" and comments that you probably wear Deere underwear and have aDeere tatoo on the right check of you butt just like mine are Caterpillar.

I am sure thay you and I could argue the virtues of Caterpillar and Deere until dooms day plus ten years. That is a product of our FREE capitalist society which enabled men like Mr. Deere, Best and Holt to go into business and prosper. That free capital society has prospered right along with our freedom, which is the envy of the entire world. It is the likes of "yellowirondude" and all the other fine young people who are or were part of the MS military for the past 200 plus years to insure that guys like you and me can argue about Deere verses Cat and prosper at the same time. Ain't life grand and thanks to every Mrine, Sailor, Airman and Soldier in the Marine Corps, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force and Army.

GOD LOVE UM ALL AND THANKS TO EACH AND EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!







11111111111111111

No Deere undies or tat here!! haha;) And yes we could argue but I'd rather debate on it. You could used to say that the guys that design the machine never listen to or talked to a tech about working on these machines but thats old news. Flip out coolers, cabs that raise hydraulically, oil changing intervals extended and etc.. all these ideas come from owners and techs..Now yellow should be able to check all the vitals of the 850J from one side or from ground height. I'm just trying to tell you that ANY machine you buy today will be like this.(some better then others)I have the feeling you and Yellow are old school being put on new school machines. (and not liking it)Having to take that learning curve vs what you are used to. What you pretty much come up with is old,somewhat slow,reliable and not easy to work on, no computers vs new,easy to work on,fast,computers greater hp While meeting EPA. ANY company that can build a machine today in this market and beat all the emission bs while gaining hp and better fuel economy is doing a dang good job.. And as with some on here I do prefer/like SOME of the older machines better. I . E 650G's 690ELC and so on. Greg on that 544g, yea that might not have been the best in your eyes but that goes back to what ya'll love the most which was simple and reliable. As far as the system and the military goes I have no idea how it really works. Thats why I need you and yellow to fill me in. Even if I wanted to argue on this i couldn't :D:drinkup

Yellow, I understand about having MECHANICS....not technicians or sometimes parts exchangers. Thats just were things are gonna have to change. It speaks volumes for a tech that can go right in there and fix just about anything. And I don't know that its so much that the parts are new and taking longer to get there as to just gettting stock for the new machine in your inventory. Even thoe it is a military machine those parts have been made for a while. While yes 850's do sometimes give problems due to computers, surely everyone that you have is not giving problems. Or atleast the same problem. There thousands of these machines out there that if everyone acted like that deere would have major problems along with no/loosing customers. I'll have to find that article on those g-series loader. But your right it might have been the army or navy.. When to comes to the older green beans and cable machines I'lll let you have them.Nothing wrong but just not my cup of coffee. No biggie. Anywho, is this the only 850 you have now? I do see in one of your picts that you have to looks like a 624J TC in the back ground??
 

Yellowirondude

Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Eastern NC
Occupation
USMC Heavy Equipment Operator
Deereman- You are absolutely right about the 624....kinda. What you see in the pic is a 624KR....a militarized version of the J model. Difference in that there are some great options that aren't avail to the public customers, such as but not limited to: up-armored cabs and (yes this is true) remote controlling. By remote controlling I mean, putting a reciever on the cab, hooking up some wires inside, and running a control station from a toughbook. Designed for mined areas or other such instinces. Never saw that mod used or installed yet, probably only a couple actual avail in the USMC. The unit I was with had only 1 (shown in the picture). Some units have 1 or 2, others 20-30. Back to the 624, if you would like to see more, I have posted pretty much the same way on Wheel Loaders as I did here. Here is the link:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?25989-Marine-Deere-624KR

Regards and Enjoy,
YID
 
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