New Toy!

[Jeff D.]

Can somebody please explain the scientific facts about changing or cleaning an air filter before you should and why that would cause harm to an engine?

I think the idea behind not cleaning the filter more than required is too keep the intake system from being opened up. A chance for contamination exsists whenever the intake system is opened up, even while changing the filter.

Also, I've read that a filter actually allows less/smaller particles through it's media when it is patially dirty(not plugged). The dirt will plug up the larger "holes" first, forcing the air to enter through the smaller openings in the media. So, although it will allow less air to enter the engine, it actually will be cleaner air. The point at which it is restricting the air enough too effect the engines performance, I don't know??

I'd follow what the owners manual recommends. If you want to clean it more, it probobly won't hurt, as long as you're careful while removing, cleaning, installing the filter, and don't damage it in the process of cleaning it.:thumbsup

 

[MVFD]

Not good to tap those filters out, it can damage the pleats. It's hard to say how hard of a tap will actually do any damage, but you might let your boss know. My dad was really stubborn about it at first until I explained what a new engine would cost. Air filters are cheap, motors are not. In normal conditions, you should easily get 200 hours out of an air filter as far as I can tell, but I'd check your manual to see what it says about air filter maintenance.


Excellent advice. Your manual will tell you when and how to service your air filters. It will probally tell you not to change them until the restricton gauge starts into the red.

He does know, he got me to tap his out.

 

[Ford LT-9000]

The excavation contractors here want the operator to do the fuel and grease after the day is done so its ready for the next day. The home owner doesn't want to see the operator spending 30 mins in the morning getting the machine ready. Once your on the site you have to get on with the job or the contractor is going to hear about it from the home owner. Some of the homeowners write down the time you started in the morning and the time you stopped and compare it to what time they are getting billed.

Myself I rather fuel up and grease the machine after the day is done its out of the way I don't have to deal with it in the morn which is usually hectic.

You got to remember I have been around excavation and heavy equipment since I was 16 so been around it for 14 years. Learned from guys that have been in the business for 30 years or more.

You have alot to learn yet you also have to work for guys that scream and yell when things are not getting done quick enough. Some days there are no such thing as a coffee or lunch break you work a full 9-10 hour day no stops you eat your lunch while you work. Some days I didn't eat anything just had water or can of pop there was no time to stop.

As for air filters you run the primary filter till its loaded and at the end of the day clean it if your working in really dusty conditions. The primary filter is just to catch the big particals the secondary filter is to catch the stuff that gets through the primary filter.

As for tapping the filter its not recommended what so ever the one contractor I worked for freaked out at one of the guys tapping the filter. I learned not to from diesel mechanics years ago. You can send dirty filters in to get cleaned they are just as good as new.

If your working in such dusty conditions that the filter is loaded up in 4 hours you should be watering down the site. That dust is getting into the filter but it is also clogging up the rad.

 

[MVFD]

The excavation contractors here want the operator to do the fuel and grease after the day is done so its ready for the next day. The home owner doesn't want to see the operator spending 30 mins in the morning getting the machine ready. Once your on the site you have to get on with the job or the contractor is going to hear about it from the home owner. Some of the homeowners write down the time you started in the morning and the time you stopped and compare it to what time they are getting billed.

Myself I rather fuel up and grease the machine after the day is done its out of the way I don't have to deal with it in the morn which is usually hectic.

You got to remember I have been around excavation and heavy equipment since I was 16 so been around it for 14 years. Learned from guys that have been in the business for 30 years or more.

You have alot to learn yet you also have to work for guys that scream and yell when things are not getting done quick enough. Some days there are no such thing as a coffee or lunch break you work a full 9-10 hour day no stops you eat your lunch while you work. Some days I didn't eat anything just had water or can of pop there was no time to stop.

As for air filters you run the primary filter till its loaded and at the end of the day clean it if your working in really dusty conditions. The primary filter is just to catch the big particals the secondary filter is to catch the stuff that gets through the primary filter.

As for tapping the filter its not recommended what so ever the one contractor I worked for freaked out at one of the guys tapping the filter. I learned not to from diesel mechanics years ago. You can send dirty filters in to get cleaned they are just as good as new.

If your working in such dusty conditions that the filter is loaded up in 4 hours you should be watering down the site. That dust is getting into the filter but it is also clogging up the rad.

for the allowed 30 mins to grease and fuel up is not billed to the customer.
the time starts the minute the machine starts working. My morning arent hectic. I arrive at 10 to 7 and start greasing etc. at 7:30 the trucks show up they know and have been told the machine doesnt start intill 7:30. by setting a time up you dont have such a hectic morning because there is nothing on site. and if they do come at 7 they sit there intill 7:30 and they dont start their time intill 7:30.

The contractor or my boss works on the same site with me. both machines are together. so he knows how I do stuff and I know how he does stuff. of corse I have alot to learn in this job I dont think u will fully learn it all between now and the time u retire. everyday is a learning curve in this business.

I dont normaly take lunch and I hardly work less then 10 hours a day. today I worked 11, yesterday I worked 12, I want the hours because its a bigger check at the end of the 2 weeks. most times with no breaks what so ever. I dont mind. Ive been screamed at, yelled at. Eric has told me that the speed im running at is right where he wants me. if someone has a problem with it, they can call him and he will explain why.

if we watered it down we would have mud and that would only make things worse as we have trucks coming in and out. we are bringing in rock but intill then its going to stay dusty.

When you say tapping will wreck the filter I think you mean hitting, tapping lightly does not harm the filter. if u disagree with that please explain why. and what it is doing to the filter. Im very interested to know. I havnt noticed any damage to any part of the filter. The rad screens are checked regularly.



But I do think we need to end our heated debate. we have learnt a few different things from different contractors and have some different styles of things. Mine may not be right, but they may not be wrong either, same for you.we follow what we know.

 

[Grader4me]

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as for the filters go, they need to be cleaned everyday atleast the primary. at this job forsure maybe not at others but they are clogged within 4 hours in the day. there are times you can not see 1 ft in front of you the dust is so bad. I have to disagree to run a a filter in till its clogged. running a clogged filter starts to make the engine heat up by working harder to suck the air in. Ive noticed this the temperture will raise fairly high for a new machine after a few hour, tap the filter and the temp goes down.

if u smash the filter against something that will damage it. Im barly "tapping" it the dust is powder so the slightest movements cause it to come out.

Can somebody please explain the scientific facts about changing or cleaning an air filter before you should and why that would cause harm to an engine? I believe the time frame is set there to make sure you dont run the machine past and hurt the motor further with either dirty oil or a dirty filter.

the air in the motor is ment to be clean. and the motor is set up to run with the air volume its sucking through a clean filter. a half clogged filter is clearly restricting air flow which in turn disrupts air volume, there for causing the engine to run more fuel equaling more fuel consumption as you guy already know. so I have to disagree with waiting for a light of gauge to come on to tell you to change it. that to me is a warning telling you its reached an unsafe point.

As for blowing the filter you should use less then 30 and blow from the inside out. blowing the outside only forces the particles in to the filter and WRECKING the media. I can see using to much PSI which would wreck the media but a low air pressure such as 15PSI does not hurt the media.
everyday.

Everybody will have different ways of doing things. youve been taught your ways and Ive been taught my ways. altho I like the advice, I havnt asked for it, I thank you guys for being friendly and trying to help. when there is something im unsure of and cant get the answer from around here I will ask on here. I may be new to operating but it doesnt mean Im in the dark, you have to remember I was born around machines. there isnt one person except the ladies in my family thats not part of construction. I come from a pretty solid backing and have all the help in the world.

I think that you will find that everyone on this forum only trys to help out the other guy. I been in the operating business for 33 years and I have learned things from the guys here. Advice that you receive is free and it comes from very experienced people. This is not a heated debate...it is just friendly opinions from a great bunch.
Having said that here is a link with some information about air filters https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/Endurance_Air_Filter_Change_Recommendations.pdf#search='air%20filter%20servicing%20on%20heavy%20equipment'
If you are satisfied with the way that you service your filter then that is all that matters.

 

[CascadeScaper]

Man, if it's that dusty, I'd be watering the site. It won't make mud, you can stop the water whenever you want, but I know I wouldn't take my machine into dusty conditions like that.

 

[tylermckee]

Watering a site to kep dust down wont make mud, rain makes mud. It doesnt take much water to keep the dust down.
Having so much dust that you cant even see infront of you isnt just hard on your machines, its unsafe, unproductive, and unhealthy.

 

[Ford LT-9000]

A ordinary garden sprinkler will keep the dust down and your not going to make mud. The mist from the water grabs the dust and pulls it down.

That light dust gets into the machine and causes havoc with wiring it gets into every crack and crevis its like sand paper chaffing at everything.

I really have a feeling the contractor you are working for is new to the business or doesn't have that many years of experience. Its common knowlege to water down a real dusty site either with a water truck and spreader bar or a ordinary garden hose. When you exposing workers to excessive dust it can and will cause sillicosis and will make you very sick.

 

[kamerad47]

Around by me they will have the job shut down for to much dust !! everytime you open that filter your letting in more dirt !!!! I take every break & lunch because I've learned at the end of the day the contractor doesn't care you didn't take if your getting paid the same!!

 

[Steve Frazier]

I was thinking the same thing kamerad47! I'm not sure who the governing agency is, whether it be OSHA or the EPA or both, but conditions that bad would require that some type of dust control be in place.

One thing we can gather from this thread is that there is no set rule about greasing machines, what works for one may not work for the other. Neither case is wrong or more right than the other, it is what works for the individual.

Personally, I grease my machine in the morning, I check the oil, start the machine and let it warm up while I'm greasing. In the mean time, my laborers are setting up their tools. I do a thorough job site clean up every night, tools and debris are put away so the customers site is as neat as possible. This makes for some set up time each morning that I use for greasing.

My jobs are bid, not hourly so the customer pays the same regardless of how long we take. I'm not sure what difference it makes if the customer watches the machine sit for service during the morning or afternoon, the amount of time is the same. If start time is an issue for the G/C, then one could show up 1/2 hour early to grease his machine.

 

[Dozerboy]

Boy this is one long winded thread.:sleeping ointhead

 

[MVFD]

Thanks steve. Thats the best way to put all of this.