New vs. Used S/A?

[Orchard Ex]

Sorry in advance for this long post....
When I started my company last year I bought a small used dump truck to support my operations. It fit the bill OK while I was part time, but at 22k GVW I was making lots of trips to the pit/yard on some jobs. It also spent a good deal of time in the shop for some quirky things and now that I have left my "real" job I don't trust it anymore. I was thinking about getting one of the 33k lbs lease turn-in convertions built up to replace it. There are some about 5 yrs old with around 140k miles, 225hp, 6 or 7 speed, new dump body.
My fear is that I might just trade one set of problems for a new set of problems.
For about $20k or $25k more I can buy a new S/A dump with a 10 speed and 300hp and a warranty etc. I could probably swing the payments but it will keep me cash poor for a while.
What would you do or whatdid you do when your company was young in this type of situation?

Regards,
Korey

 

[Dozerboy]

IMO buy the new one down time is a killer, you know you want it.

 

[Bob Horrell]

If you take your time you can find some good deals on used trucks. I looked for 7 months before I found my International 4900. It was made as a dump truck with double frame, 10 speed roadranger, 35K GVW and only 108,000 miles. I got it and a 26KGVW trailer (that was virtually new - only used 1 time to haul culvert pipe) for $24,250. In the 7 month search I learned a lot about single axle dump trucks - all the makes, engine and transmission combinations, hoist types (mine is a monster telescoping unit), frames, axle rating options etc. When I finally bought, I knew exactly what I wanted and I new what was a good deal and what was not.
I bought a truck that, so far, is trouble free and looks as if it will give me many miles of trouble free operation. After a 1200 mile trip home, I parked it on a cement driveway. Two days later I crawled under it and there wasn't a single drip on my driveway - absolutely no leaks of any kind anywhere.
They are out there, you just have to take the time to do the search. You will learn a lot during the process that will help you make a good decision.

 

[Jeff D.]

That is a tough question.You might get a used truck that'll run without any problems,or it might turn out too be a lemon.

If you get a new one,maintanance shouldn't be an issue,but you've got to keep it rolling to make the payments.

If you think you've enough work for it,I'd agree with Dozerboy.

My experience is mostly with semi's.I've tried it both ways with older trucks,and new ones.In the end the older trucks were costing me more per mile than the brand new ones.And I'm not spending every week-end working on them anymore.
3 examples:

My 93 freightliner (bought used w/328,000miles.sold at 670,000)had a payment of $924.00/month,but I was spending an average of $300.00/wk in maintanance in 3 years owned.Per yr total=$26,688.00

My 00 Freightliner (bought new.sold at 490,000miles)had a payment of $2053.00/month,maintance was about $96.00/wk in 3.5 years.Per yr toal=$29,636.00

My current 03 Mack(bought new.Now has 334,000)has a payment of $1637.00/month,average maintanance $115.00/wk in 3years.Per yr total=$25,624.00(and my Mack is a Lemon,but the big repairs were under warrenty)

Although it appears my 00 Freightshaker cost the most,I was putting on much more miles than with the 93 or my 03,so it actually was less per mile after adjustments than the 93 or 03.(it didn't break down often so I was able to stay rolling more)

So roughly:

93 Freightliner:$.24/mile @ 110,000 miles
00 Freightliner:$.22/mile @ 135,000 miles
03 Mack Lemo-liner:$.23/mile @ 110,000 miles

To be fair though,my Mack gets much better fuel mileage than either of the previous,and that has actually made it the most profitable truck for me yet,in the long run.But I still think it has quality issues,and am not happy with it.The used 93 Freightliner was in the shop more,AND I had to foot ALL the bills for that one,so it ended up costing me the most.
(and you apoligized for your long post,haa!!)
I hope that can help you.Good Luck.

 

[Ford LT-9000]

Just avoid buying converted truck tractors allot of dealers do this so they can flog the truck. When you find a used truck with a un-used box becarefull.

Personally if you need a bigger truck skip the single axle if you have a CDL already go with a tandem won't cost you much more in maintenance but much more work for a tandem.

As for buying a used truck you just have to look for a good one.

 

[Jeff D.]

I have to agree with LT9000 about the tandem truck,over a single axle.If you know the single axle will be adaquate,then it's a good choice.If your unsure about it being enough though,the tandem really is a much better choice.I regret not getting a tandem right away,instead of settling with a single axle dump truck first.The single axle got small real fast.5 yards isn't alot of dirt.Even the tandems(3 axle including steer) are getting to be small,when others have many multiple drop axles hanging down off the frame in front of,and behind the tandems,and have boxes that'll hold 18yrds.

 

[digger242j]

....and my Mack is a Lemon,...

So is that why you have a problem with the yellow color scheme?

Seriously though, that breakdown of cost/mile is the kind of stuff that's so hard to get a handle on until you've done it yourself, (and paid for your education). Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Jeff D.]

Well Thank You!!

Get a load of this,I had today off,so my precious heap of broken Renault parts could spend the afternoon in the shop.......again.(but I got to play on here all day,so it ain't all bad)

This previous Monday my buddy,who's a cow trucker,got to spend 2 days,1 night in luxurious Sioux Falls SD. because his Mack(Same exact model as mine,CX 613)had the engine fan come off and rip everything to shreads.He had just had the radiator,waterpump,and cooling fan updated to the "It won't overheat no mo' " new Mack system a month before.

But wait,there's more.When the Mack dealer ordered the replacement parts,they ordered the "old"style fan,radiator,waterpump, not realizing his had the new update.Needing to get him rolling,they put it on anyway,but now he's got to go back and have the parts replaced again,to the new system.It's all under warrenty,but the down time is ridiculous.

Every morning I go out the door,see that thing(Mack),grab my forehead with both hands,and dig my fingernails in as deep as I can stand.I'm thinking about parking the dumptrucks next to it,and slightly ahead,to try and block the view.

I just gotta figure out how to send it down the road,before it runs completely out of warrenty.The drinks will be on me that day,and I don't even drink anymore!!

 

[Ford LT-9000]

Thats the problem with Mack is they are a little out of their league when it comes to over the road trucks.

 

[Orchard Ex]

Getting the best deal?

Thanks to everyone for the info - extra thanks to Jeff D. for posting the cost to own figures!
I really think a CDL S/A will be all I need for quite a while, probably overkill for the time being. I'm trying to aviod buying what's on the lot instead of what I really want but the dealers are pushing the stock units pretty hard.
Some of the '07 builds are gearing up and the prices are bumping up as always. Any negotiation strategies?
BTW - the closest dealer is 1.5 hr drive, the others that I'm talking to are 2-3 hrs. away, so I'm working by phone and fax at first. Good idea or bad?
Thanks again,
Korey

 

[Jeff D.]

Korey,I'm not much help in the negotiations dept.,but if possible I'd try and buy the truck from the same dealer that will be doing your warrenty work,and the servicing,if you don't do it yourself.

After you buy the truck,they'll be(or they SHOULD be) more helpful to you if they think you may buy another truck from them later,and they're more likely to go the extra mile in the service dept.

You never realize how much you depend on the dealer,until you've a poor relationship with them.They really can just about make or break you,if there's none other close that can do your warrenty work.

If they get your truck in,and get it done,and work on warrenty claims to the fullest extent,then your business will be that much ahead.

I really believe the dealership is just as important as your decisions on truck brand,and your final purchase price.

Good Luck!!

 

[Jeff D.]

Oh,also,if you're going to order one to your own spec's,then I'd definately sit down with the salesman and go over everthing that you've a choice on.The truck makers have terrific computer programs that can help you get the drivetrain matched up correctly.Everything from engagement torque at idle, the engines most efficient RPM range,the full gov RPM,Top road speed,est. max GCVW,tire size,makes a difference in the best spec's for your truck.Their programs can take all that info,and tell you what you'll need for motor,tranny,final ratio.(at least Freightliner had this)

It takes a few hours to do it,but it's well worth it.
And it's actually kinda fun!!:yup

 

[dayexco]

JeffD where in minn. you at? i live in watertown, sd....4 hrs. straight west of mpls on highway 212

 

[Jeff D.]

Dayexco,I live just north of Duluth MN.

I'm very familiar with Watertown.I stumbled sideways out of the truckstop bar there many a night.I use to pick up just south of there in Lk. Norden.,or at Huron.

I also spent alot of time in Summit at the Coffee Cup.

I loved it out there,but my run to Aberdeen was taken by the DC in Colorado in 2000,so I got a run to Virgina MN now.

I sure miss it out there,though.