NH C332 (Iveco) Low engine oil pressure with low hours…

[Hondaracing02]

I have a c332 with only 900 hours. It has not given me any issues- it’s winter in the Midwest and has been cold of course. One morning after about an hour it gave me a low oil pressure warning and began to countdown to shutdown. I shut it off and restarted, same issue. I hit the main power for 30 seconds, restarted and could run for another 45 min then it would give me issues from time to time again. Sometimes would work for 30-44 min, other times maybe 2 min. Eventually pulled it into shop.

New day- I replaced oil sensor and restarted, oil pressure warning right away. I put a mechanical guage on it and was barely getting 10PSI at idle. I changed oil and filter with oem 0w-40. Started it up and got 18-20 psi, as it warmed up after a few minutes it would creep down to 15-16 psi. As I increase rpm it would actually decrease engine oil pressure. I didn’t want to run it for any more than 3-5 min so I shut it down.

These machine have the oil filter relocated to a side cover. The o-ring has a slight seep around the original filter housing, but you can’t see it leak, just is wet, wouldn’t think that would cause issues.

I suspected and hoped maybe the relief valve was bad, removed radiator and went after that. Looked good, spring and snap ring all tight and in place. I then took front cover off engine to view oil pump. It’s a mechanical gear driven pump off the crank. From what I can tell it looks okay, I can turn it side to side maybe 1/8” inch max by hand. I assume maybe there’s a key way. I suppose it could be stripped and I just don’t notice it with hand pressure instead of a running engine. But not sure what would cause that. In order to remove pump, I’ll have to take off the next outer cover and some other components. I’m afraid I’m going after the wrong culprit.

My gauge is from harbor freight, but does seem to be working okay. Came with two gauges (different ranges) and both are reading the same.

These sensors per the book go off if they don’t see 13psi at startup, and again if they don’t see at least 3 psi. Seems awfully low. At full rpm it’s supposed to be 42-58psi. I get around 13-14psi.

I’m wondering if this has been an issue for awhile and I didn’t know it because the sensor never went off until the oil became cold and dirty enough? Now with fresh oil and filter, the sensor would likely be happy, but still technically too low of pressure. Maybe this has been ongoing and loosing more and more pressure; but why? Or is this a new thing..

Could the motor really be randomly bad with excess wear? It doesn’t seem to knock or have extra noise at all. Any other ideas or culprits to cause low oil pressure? Thanks in advance!

 

[HarleyHappy]

What filter are you running?
Seems like you have confirmed that it actually does have low oil pressure.
So, it’s likely your pump isn’t putting out enough pressure or you have a sanded motor.
Can you get a stiffer spring for the relief/pressure valve.
Slightly concerned about being able to move crank operated gear pump an 1/8”.
Not familiar enough with Iveco motors enough but the pump has to have a key way or spline, either way, you shouldn’t be able to jog it 1/8”, I would believe.
Where is the oil pick-up and is it possible the screen is plugged or an o-ring is bad?
How old is the machine, serial number, how long have you owned it.
Pictures always help.
I would start by determining if it’s pump pressure problems or motor problems first.
How many hours on the old oil and where is the old filter, might want to open it up?

 

[Nige]

…..where is the old filter, might want to open it up?

This. Open up the old filter and check for particles in the media.

 

[Hondaracing02]

The machine is only 3 years old. Regarding moving the oil pump gears, it’s just the little space between the teeth. Probably not an 1/8”, but the amount it moves is normal. I can’t see the oil gally, it’s on the backside, I can remove it, but need to remove the water pump and next cover to do so.. trying to avoid that, but may have to.. I did cut open the old Baldwin filter that had 50 hours on it. I didn’t find any metal shaving or pieces on the filter. It has a cnh filter on it now as I just changed the oil before I tore into the front cover.

To access the oil pickup, I have to pull the motor. I’m not sure where to go from here, that’s a chore to find out the oring is likely okay. The issue is probably something small, but not sure what.. I’ll attach some pics tomorrow.

Thank you for your help

 

[HarleyHappy]

Hoping for something simple is great but you have pretty well verified that at 900 hours, the machine has crappy oil pressure.
I am not familiar with these engines but expect there is a low oil sensor and a separate oil pressure switch.
Where did you hook in the manual pressure gauge.
If it was after the filter return, that could explain the bad readings.
Is this machine in a heated shop?
I think I would probably spend more time verifying the oil pressure readings.
Is the pressure relief near the oil pump and does it have the typical ball to seat configuration?

 

[Hondaracing02]

I hooked the manual pressure gauge into the oil pressure sensor location on top of filter housing. I can’t confirm if this is before or after the filter. Filter is relocated to behind the track with an access door.

The machine is in a heated shop now, but was in the cold side when I was initially testing the pressure manually.

I had concerns after tearing into it that maybe some sort of moisture had gotten in the oil and froze in the pickup, but you’d think that would melt quickly after a few minutes of running. Also when it initially started giving low oil pressure warnings, the machine had been running for 1.5 hours or so. So frozen moisture likely not the culprit.

Attached pics are of the oil filter with no visible shavings, pressure relief valve that looks like new, and engine with front cover off (oil pump in bottom left corner).

This link better shows the pump.

5802168471 | PUMP, ENGINE OIL | Case IH | MyCNH AMEA Store

Case IH - PUMP, ENGINE OIL #5802168471

www.mycnhstore.com

 

[HarleyHappy]

Can‘t get the oil pump pictures or information to load. Is there a pressure regulator at the pump at all.
Might be on bottom, having a screw or plug leading into it.
If the oil pressure is indeed low, it would have to be at the pump, relief or regulator or the oil pick up tube.
Other than something very serious.

 

[Hondaracing02]

I ended up taking the oil filter relocation hoses off and putting the filter right on the block. I then put the cover back in and started motor, no luck. Oil pressure still low. Removed crankcase filter and still not change.

It sits right at 18psi at an idle and when I throttle up to full throttle, the pressure drops to 13-14psi. Any ideas on why it drops instead of increases a little? I suppose this could point to the pickup?

I did then decide to take both covers off and pull the oil pump. It appears fine. I guess there’s likely tolerances on the internal gears, but with the naked eye it looks tight. I was surprised there was no seal or oring on the pump to block mating service. Maybe that’s because it’s internal?

Really all I can think now would be oil pickup. A buddy mentioned maybe add extra oil(overfill) until the pickup oring is covered, which makes sense in theory as it will be fully submerged in oil. But not sure how much to add and don’t want to cause any damage by adding too much.

 

[92U 3406]

I would think that if you were pulling in air through the pickup tube o-ring you would be seeing very erratic swings in oil pressure on a test gauge and not a steady reading.

 

[oarwhat]

When you find out the problem be sure to come back and let us know what it was.

 

[Hondaracing02]

Hopefully I have the opportunity to do so…I am at a total loss of confusion. With no wear on the oil pump, I decided to pressurize the oil pickup with air. I can see the oil in pan and the tube going down in. Blows bubbles as it should. I can barely stick my finger down around the block to where pickup enters with oring and I feel no air leaking by that seal.

I can pull the motor, but have no direction on what to go after. And might not find anything.

 

[Arny L]

To inspect oil filter properly, your supposed to section out a piece of filter, and then squeeze out all residual oil in a vise, then spread out flat. Your taking things apart, but you need to be a bit more thorough in your diagnoses. Not criticizing, Did you, or can you, take oil pump apart, to inspect and measure. You've gone this far. If it were me I would want to eliminate each component 100% before moving on to next. You would hate to pull engine, and then find the pump is scored beyond limits.

 

[Nige]

To inspect oil filter properly, your supposed to section out a piece of filter, and then squeeze out all residual oil in a vise, then spread out flat.

This VIDEO is the best one I've found that describes the process and explains why you do what you do.

 

[Hondaracing02]

Thank you for your insight and opinions. I agree I wasn’t super thorough although with the low hours and incredibly low oil pressure, my thoughts were if it were the oil filter shavings or pump, it should be visible and major. Thanks for the video on the filter inspection.

I did SOLVE the issue. I drained the oil and inspected the pan carefully from the bit I could see. I noticed paint flaking up off the bottom. I hit it with brake clean to blast the black oil away and revealed more paint missing. I knew the screen on the pickup was small from the diagrams I’ve looked at. I had a suspicion that the paint was likely clogging the pickup. I then stripped the motor components down and pulled the engine and dropped the pan. Sure enough, the pics speak for themselves.

Normally in this situation I would buy a replacement part. But buying a new pan concerns me that it may happen again. I would assume this paint is some sort of rust preventative, because it’s certainly not for looks, no one sees it (expect me when their paint idea didn’t work out…) I’m planning to sand or bead blast the pan to remove the remaining paint unless I’m overlooking an essential part of its purpose?

I talked to a friend of mine who used to work for CASE, and he had a newer Iveco engine do this also (I give him credit for the help). I researched it and see on agtalk there was a gentleman having this issue on his Iveco engine in a sprayer. You can’t tell me we’re the only 3. I mean there’s thousands of Ivecos out there. Was it a bad patch of paint that didn’t adhere? Or bad idea.. I’m thinking both.

 

[Arny L]

Thank you for your insight and opinions. I agree I wasn’t super thorough although with the low hours and incredibly low oil pressure, my thoughts were if it were the oil filter shavings or pump, it should be visible and major. Thanks for the video on the filter inspection.

I did SOLVE the issue. I drained the oil and inspected the pan carefully from the bit I could see. I noticed paint flaking up off the bottom. I hit it with brake clean to blast the black oil away and revealed more paint missing. I knew the screen on the pickup was small from the diagrams I’ve looked at. I had a suspicion that the paint was likely clogging the pickup. I then stripped the motor components down and pulled the engine and dropped the pan. Sure enough, the pics speak for themselves.

Normally in this situation I would buy a replacement part. But buying a new pan concerns me that it may happen again. I would assume this paint is some sort of rust preventative, because it’s certainly not for looks, no one sees it (expect me when their paint idea didn’t work out…) I’m planning to sand or bead blast the pan to remove the remaining paint unless I’m overlooking an essential part of its purpose?

I talked to a friend of mine who used to work for CASE, and he had a newer Iveco engine do this also (I give him credit for the help). I researched it and see on agtalk there was a gentleman having this issue on his Iveco engine in a sprayer. You can’t tell me we’re the only 3. I mean there’s thousands of Ivecos out there. Was it a bad patch of paint that didn’t adhere? Or bad idea.. I’m thinking both.

That's a real bummer. I don't think I've ever seen a pan painted on the inside. Good job on finding it.

 

[Nige]

Out of interest what engine oil are you using in it.?

 

[Hondaracing02]

0w-40 Oem new holland oil

 

[Nige]

I was just wondering if some off-brand oil additive had affected the paint. Not likely in your case though. I'm like everyone else, never seen an oil pan painted inside before.

 

[masterwelder]

If you need paint on the inside of oil pan you probably need to paint the inside of the entire engine... geez.

Looks like they forgot the primer, maybe thats the issue.

 

[masterwelder]

Seriously, if your going to Con Expo in March the Case booth would be my first stop to relay my findings.

Generally some very high up personal are at the expo.

That paint clogging up the pick up tube needs to be addressed by the manufacture IMO.