Now I know why front wheels tilt, what about this?

[LowBoy]

G'day Grader4me...
My normally sharp wit I think is slowly diminishing because of the job I'm on nowadays. I was afraid in the beginning that the "stupid" would rub off on me if I wasn't careful, but they're suceeding it looks like.
From having no functional plan or goal to work for each day I'm there, to being told to build waterbars and silt ponds out of silt itself on 30% slopes, expecting to see them gone Monday morning and being correct in my evaluation. No kidding. Last Friday they were in a big yank to have me divert a stream into a freshly built swale I made (against my better judgement,) and Monday morning the laborers were 300 feet down the bank out in the woods shoveling a foot of silt around.
In addition, having laid 120' of 18" aluminum drainage pipe in 4 days digging in pure silt again has a way of getting on my nerves. It's being put in on a 15% pitch uphill, and each stick they check with the laser. Ray Charles could dig and install it himself on a 15% run and not need a transit, but they insist every piece be checked for "positive flow" as the highly skilled and intelligent personell I'm surrounded by puts it.
I'm sorry for the rant Mr. Grader, and for the jacking of your pure thread once again. I think I'm still trying to justify my lack of understanding of the "M8" term by blaming my occupational woes...:Banghead

 

[Grader4me]

Thanks for your rant. Sorry.. but I'm falling off my chair laughing so hard. Not so much at your misfortune of having to work with a bunch of nuts, but at the way you describe it. Good god man you just have to write a book...I would stand in line in the pouring rain for a copy..:notworthy

 

[LowBoy]

Thanks for your rant. Sorry.. but I'm falling off my chair laughing so hard. Not so much at your misfortune of having to work with a bunch of nuts, but at the way you describe it. Good god man you just have to write a book...I would stand in line in the pouring rain for a copy..:notworthy

It's the little things in life that'll get 'ya I've been told...and they are certainly starting to.:duh

This book thing is starting to become an interesting concept to me, looking at what I've been through to what I'm suffering through right now. reading all those posts about slowing economy, laid off workers and lack of work does give me the reassurance of being one of the fortunate few to be working 70 hrs. a week in these times. However I'm concerned about them completely "brainwashing" me before I get this book completed in it's entirety.

If that does happen, the book will have no topic, no title, no structure, and the dedication page will be to "all the engineers and inspectors who've taken my desire to achieve any goals whatsoever"...It will resemble a book by Bill Clinton entitled, "Faithfulness for Dummies".

 

[EZ TRBO]

Not to bring any snow too soon but here are a few pics a friend of mine(whom is a highway dept worker) took on one of his days off. This is myself working on making one of our townhip roads wider. He is very handy with a grader and myself I have never really had anyone help me with the most effiecent ways to use one plowing snow. Have always got the job done but he really helped me in when and where to do certain things.

Trbo

 

[EZ TRBO]

Few more, same day, there were many days spent doing nothing but this all day long.

Trbo

 

[Grader4me]

Nice pictures. Why do you have the grader articulated like that?

 

[EZ TRBO]

Nice pictures. Why do you have the grader articulated like that?

Well he took a ton of pics. If you put the front end IN to the snow, tilt the tires out you kinda go stright down the road keeping your rear wheels up out of the ditch. Other times, while winging, go the opposite putting your drives right into the ditch and in essence right behind your wing, Pushing it instead of having it off to the side. I've watched alot of the guys around here doing the same thing and it works. Kinda one of them things, keeps you moving forward, and heaving snow at the same time. You have alot more time on a grader than I do I'm sure, so if you see anything NOT needed or think i could do different feel free to let me know.

One other thing, I know the one pic it was more to keep the Vee from getting into the snow and kicking it out to the middle. But like i said, the things he showed me sure made it easier.
Trbo

 

[Grader4me]

I see your point Trbo but lets just take each picture and I'll give you my opinion. Everyone has their way of doing things, so I'm not saying your approach is wrong. I've done a ton of shoving back snow with a vee and shelving/benching with the wing.

Lets take the first and second picture. You are just using the wing as your grader is articulated so that your vee is out on the road. Okay, first thing is that you're taking up a pretty good portion of the road so that traffic might have a hard time getting by. You are trying to take to much with your wing as a lot of snow is falling back down and it also looks like your moldboard is hooking snow as well. Also you are only doing one function

Fourth picture you are making an excellent shelf. Couldn't get any better than that. If you would have had your machine straight and use your vee as well then there wouldn't have been as much snow left on the road. Again it appears that you are hooking the bank with your moldboard.
Best thing to do when shoving back using a vee and wing is to angle your moldboard the other way

The other pictures you have the machine angled so that you are only using the vee to shove back. I can see this if it's really soft, but it look like you are not getting the maximum out of your set up. I never see one picture that you are using the vee and the wing together to shove back.

When I shove back the grader is straight, with the vee into the bank and wing taking all it can take without rolling over the top. I have my moldboard angled in the opposite direction so that I'm not hooking any snow and bringing it onto the road. If the shoulder is soft I will articulate a bit to place my rear wheels on the hard surface but I still use my vee and wing together. There has been times in really high snowbanks that I've just used my vee to break the bank. Always backed up and put a shelf on it though.
Articulating hard one way or another means you can only use the wing or the vee, not both. You have to be careful as well as being fully articulated when shoving back heavy snow could put more stress on the machine.

Trbo, these are only my thoughts and maybe many wouldn't agree with me but you asked

 

[EZ TRBO]

I see your point Trbo but lets just take each picture and I'll give you my opinion. Everyone has their way of doing things, so I'm not saying your approach is wrong. I've done a ton of shoving back snow with a vee and shelving/benching with the wing.

Lets take the first and second picture. You are just using the wing as your grader is articulated so that your vee is out on the road. Okay, first thing is that you're taking up a pretty good portion of the road so that traffic might have a hard time getting by. You are trying to take to much with your wing as a lot of snow is falling back down and it also looks like your moldboard is hooking snow as well. Also you are only doing one function


Fourth picture you are making an excellent shelf. Couldn't get any better than that. If you would have had your machine straight and use your vee as well then there wouldn't have been as much snow left on the road. Again it appears that you are hooking the bank with your moldboard.
Best thing to do when shoving back using a vee and wing is to angle your moldboard the other way


The other pictures you have the machine angled so that you are only using the vee to shove back. I can see this if it's really soft, but it look like you are not getting the maximum out of your set up. I never see one picture that you are using the vee and the wing together to shove back.

When I shove back the grader is straight, with the vee into the bank and wing taking all it can take without rolling over the top. I have my moldboard angled in the opposite direction so that I'm not hooking any snow and bringing it onto the road. If the shoulder is soft I will articulate a bit to place my rear wheels on the hard surface but I still use my vee and wing together. There has been times in really high snowbanks that I've just used my vee to break the bank. Always backed up and put a shelf on it though.
Articulating hard one way or another means you can only use the wing or the vee, not both. You have to be careful as well as being fully articulated when shoving back heavy snow could put more stress on the machine.

Trbo, these are only my thoughts and maybe many wouldn't agree with me but you asked

Point taken, wasn't worried bout traffic there and the snow in question was VERY hard(previous snows and melts). I belive Joe did say I was out too far, as I wanted to just keep my Vee from hitting into it and pushing a bunch back in the road.

I've done that a number of times(vee and wing) and it has worked fine, if i remember right I kept sliding down into the ditch and having to back up, there keeping the front end out kept me out on the road.


Thanks a bunch, as for the photos I was trying to shove some of it back into the ditch, but couldn't get them to push at the same time and move any snow. I was shelfed in spots as high as i could go, and a fence was there as well. I am going to copy and print this out for future reference. As one of my old operators told me one day, "I can tell you things all day long, but you have to put your ass in the seat to really learn."

Thanks

Trbo

 

[Grader4me]

"I can tell you things all day long, but you have to put your ass in the seat to really learn."

Exactly, and if you can learn from your mistakes then you're on your way. Believe me I've seen many that don't. In the pictures it definitely looked like you was having a blast though...

 

[Deas Plant]

Learning - 'curve'.

Hi, Ez Trbo.
Those photos and the way you have your grader articulated make sense to me. You're setting your machine to counteract the forces working against it while delivering the material you are grading to where you want it. THAT is the essence of operating a grader, particularly an articulated grader, or all-wheel-drive, all-wheel-steer machines like the Austin-Westerns, Aveling-Austins, Aveling-Barfords and Clarkes, either 4x4x4's or 6x6x6's.

Good stuff.

 

[EZ TRBO]

Always willing to learn

Hi, Ez Trbo.
Those photos and the way you have your grader articulated make sense to me. You're setting your machine to counteract the forces working against it while delivering the material you are grading to where you want it. THAT is the essence of operating a grader, particularly an articulated grader, or all-wheel-drive, all-wheel-steer machines like the Austin-Westerns, Aveling-Austins, Aveling-Barfords and Clarkes, either 4x4x4's or 6x6x6's.

Good stuff.

Thanks Deas, I've talked with G4M on this subject and he has given me some more things to try as well to add to what I was doing that day. I wish I could have had more photos from this winter, spent alot of days on the grader and although no where near perfect I gained a ton of knowledge as to how to go about different types of snow(hard packed, and fluffy) and how to make the most out of the little room we have to place it in(keeping it off farmers fences). That particular area had been blown in and pushed out and blown back in almost daily and the snow was getting very hard packed and as G4M said try to do both functions at once(which I was able to do at a number of locations) but here it was just two much for the machine.

Thanks

Trbo

 

[MKTEF]

On jobs like the one shown here i realy see the positive thing about our front blade.

I would have used my front blade to cut/push the high side of the bank further out.
Then with the front wheels leaned and in the snow on the side of the road.

Main blade then used to lift/push the rest further out (and up).
Articulated to keep the back wheels on the road.

Would have been as if u had your wing up front and using the main blade for the lower part.

 

[EZ TRBO]

On jobs like the one shown here i realy see the positive thing about our front blade.

I would have used my front blade to cut/push the high side of the bank further out.
Then with the front wheels leaned and in the snow on the side of the road.

Main blade then used to lift/push the rest further out (and up).
Articulated to keep the back wheels on the road.

Would have been as if u had your wing up front and using the main blade for the lower part.

IN that case we were about out of room on that side, and was unable to push anymore to the right. Otherwise I sure would have, remember this was blown and re blown in numerous times. We have a blade for the grader but its worthless when it comes to having to blast through a road that is totally blown in. Hell we have had some places where we have worked for hours just back and forth shoving with the Vee to just heeve the snow up and out. If it is too bad, like some of the roads, and we dont' have to HAVE it open, we just leave it until we are able to get there.

Trbo

 

[Grader4me]

We make a video a few years back of opening a road using a vee plow. There was this side road that run between two other roads and there were no houses on it and rarely used. There must have been six feet of snow or better and packed down with snowmobiles. We hooked up a vee on the plow truck and started at it. With the truck you had to be careful as snow would roll back behind the vee and you would get stuck. You had to plow straight for a bit, back up widen to the left, back up then widen to the right. Then repeat the procedure.
We also put the vee on the grader. Same procedure, but with the grader there was less chance of getting stuck. Big job opening that road, but it sure was a lot of fun.

I've done that a number of times(vee and wing) and it has worked fine, if i remember right I kept sliding down into the ditch and having to back up, there keeping the front end out kept me out on the road

.

Sounds like maybe you was trying to push it back to far? When I started sliding into the ditch I knew that I've gone beyond my limit. Let me explain...We push the snow back as far as we can but we don't leave a trap for the traffic to get into. We try to at least leave a one to two foot shelf on the shoulder of the road. Without this a vehicle might pull over on the shoulder and go into the ditch. Again, this is only how we do things.

Also and you probably know sliding off the road with a vee attached takes a little more time to get back out.

 

[MKTEF]

I see.

Like this operation we did this autumn.

Banks so high the plows couldn't throw it up over the edge.(9 feet+)
A grader first dragging down the snowbank into the road.
Snowblower one throwing most of it out. (L120 and a Øveraasen 110)
Second smaler snowblower cleaning out the rest.(L50 + minispin)

Have added a pic of the second loader, L50, showing how the bank looked afterwards.
Just adjusted the blade don to the road fence, not touching the poles.

Drifting is a problem on many of our main roads.
Only thing helping is raising the road over the terrain, a tunnel or a wooden wall beside the road.

 

[EZ TRBO]

We make a video a few years back of opening a road using a vee plow. There was this side road that run between two other roads and there were no houses on it and rarely used. There must have been six feet of snow or better and packed down with snowmobiles. We hooked up a vee on the plow truck and started at it. With the truck you had to be careful as snow would roll back behind the vee and you would get stuck. You had to plow straight for a bit, back up widen to the left, back up then widen to the right. Then repeat the procedure.
We also put the vee on the grader. Same procedure, but with the grader there was less chance of getting stuck. Big job opening that road, but it sure was a lot of fun.

.

Sounds like maybe you was trying to push it back to far? When I started sliding into the ditch I knew that I've gone beyond my limit. Let me explain...We push the snow back as far as we can but we don't leave a trap for the traffic to get into. We try to at least leave a one to two foot shelf on the shoulder of the road. Without this a vehicle might pull over on the shoulder and go into the ditch. Again, this is only how we do things.

Also and you probably know sliding off the road with a vee attached takes a little more time to get back out.

Problem was we didn't have ANY room to push the snow and no blowing equipment(the county is the only one). many would say just leave it shut, problem is we live in Milk country and the farmers have to have their milk picked up so you do what you can. I know there were times we were not going to gain much pushing back but when you have people B!%^ing about the narrow roads you try to do what you can.

Trbo

 

[Grader4me]

Problem was we didn't have ANY room to push the snow and no blowing equipment(the county is the only one). many would say just leave it shut, problem is we live in Milk country and the farmers have to have their milk picked up so you do what you can. I know there were times we were not going to gain much pushing back but when you have people B!%^ing about the narrow roads you try to do what you can.

Trbo

The best is all that you can do my friend. People are going to bitch no matter what. They see you out there trying your best and hopefully some at least will appreciate it.
I know where you are coming from. Narrow road, fences, probably high banks on both sides before the snow came.
Reminds me of a story..we had this road that was similar as you describe and it was always jammed full of snow. Biggest problem was this dam fence that run along the whole length of it (about 1 mile). I was out shoving back one nice day and I had worked quite a few hours previously, so I was a tad grumpy before I went into this road. The snow was really jammed in and I shoved it back as far as I could going in but because of trees, high banks I couldn't get it much wider. Now coming back I had to dodge that fence until some snow came off the wing and snaped one wire. There the owner of the fence is going to be ticked off anyway so what the heck. I gave her the cut in and took out most of the fence. Got the snow back where I wanted it anyways. While I was doing this I keep thinking of that old saying "sometimes it's better to seek forgiveness than ask permission"
Got my first experience on fencing that spring...:Banghead :naughty

 

[ovrszd]

pics

Great snow pics EZ. I had to push my township roads twelve times last winter. Got our new machine in the middle of it so I didn't complain too much. But I was tired of it by spring.

Where are you located??? Sure looks like my territory.

 

[CEwriter]

Some illustrations like the one below . . .

and a bit of explanation of the basic uses for articulated steering, and other grader features, here: http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA6412864.html?text=heroes+motor+grader