Old 1977 JCB 1400 Fuel issue

[sbh111]

I have an old JCB 1400 with a perkins engine. The last few times I went to start the beast, it wasnt getting fuel because the kill switch wasnt fully disengaged. I pulled the kill switch out and back in and it fired right up. Then the last time I tried, it didnt work.

Does anyone have any experience with these old pumps that know how they are put together? Im looking for a way to open it up and see if something broke. The lever for the killswitch on the pump still moves freely like nothing is wrong. Can I access this part of the pump without taking it off the engine? Is there any harm in taking it off to look at? Ive heard that the fuel pumps on some diesels need to be installed in a very specific way or they wont work.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Before we get in trouble, u should post some #’s off the name plate..
I’m pretty sure it’s a CAV DPA pump.. if it is it’ll start with 3242F***
If that’s it, yes u can remove the top cover.. just PAY ATTENTION to how the main gov spring is hooked up..
There’s 3 holes in the throttle and 3 holes in the gov plate..which boils down to A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS the spring can hook up..

 

[sbh111]

Yes it's a CAV LS61 starts 3241F490

I don't know diesels or what the nomenclature means. What am I looking for if I open it up? A butterfly valve or more like a float needle?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Idk what yer looking for.. ur the one that wants to open it up..
Before u go into the pump..
Pull the throttle to wide open..
Loosen all the steel lines from the pump AT THE INJECTORS a couple of turns..
There’s a bleed screw by the name plate.. loosen it up and crank the engine until fuel shoots out with no air and tighten it up..
Now crank the engine for a 6-1000 crank time and look for fuel squirting out of the lines and tighten them up..

 

[Delmer]

If you can find a manual that identifies the metering valve, that's the only area you want to investigate if you pull the cover off, but don't do that yet. Flick the stop lever back and forth a few times, you pull the lever to shut it off positively, but when you release it a light spring has to return it to the run position, so you want to help that spring knock the valve loose. In the future, leave the shut off pushed in to the run position when it will sit for a while. Use up the fuel more regularly also.

 

[Welder Dave]

I'm not sure but check that the throttle arm nut is tight. I seem to recall if it's loose the throttle shaft might not get full movement. I could be wrong though. It looks like you have some pretty good leaking going on.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Google: CAV METERING VALVE

 

[sbh111]

UPDATE but not fixed.

Sorry it took a while, waiting on decent weather.

So, I did crack the bleeders, hence why the pump looks so filthy. When I use the manual primer on the other side of the engine, I get fuel pumping out each and every bleeder and banjo bolt on all the jets. But when I pull wide open throttle and crank, I barely see any fuel come from anywhere. Not the bleeders or the jets.

I did pop the top cover off after getting a gasket kit to see if the needle valve was stuck closed but even after that, no change.

I'm wondering if I have to take out the whole pump and do a rebuild but that's the part that scares me.

Any further advise?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Did u loosen the bleeder by the name plate and crank the engine.?
It should shoot out about 5 ft..
If it’s not, your pump is seized up.
If this is yours, I’d be happy to have a look at it..
If it’s the companies, I don’t take po #’s..

 

[Welder Dave]

If you seem to have fuel everywhere, you could try a tiny shot of starting fluid just to get it to fire. I asked a mechanic who worked on a lot of MF tractors with Perkins engines and he said a tiny shot of ether wouldn't hurt if you have good fuel flow at the bleeders. Best to spray for a second while cranking. Sometimes you just need a little help after changing filters or ran out of fuel. If it doesn't fire after a couple 1 second tries, then you might have a pump problem.

 

[thepumpguysc]

What I gathered was, he gets fuel using the hand primer.. & nothing using the starter..

 

[Welder Dave]

I've only ever had to replace the primer pump and fix a leak at the throttle shaft on the top cover. Never had any issues with the pump itself. Even when it appeared to have a lot of water and the sediment bowl was frozen never had a pump issue. I think I either got a really bad load of diesel or someone dumped some water in the tank. It seemed like way too much to be a coincidence. Thankfully my UK tractor has dual filters and a sediment bowl. The US models only have 1 filter.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Using the h primer is forcing fuel thru the filters and pump..
By opening the bleeder by the n plate, THAT BLEEDER is past the internal supply pump, that s.p. raises low pressure inlet fuel to hi pressure that the pump needs to pump..
So if he’s not getting any fuel out of the open bleeder, at cranking speed.. THAT tells me the internal supply pump is not turning, hence seized..
It’s a simple 2 minute test..
Crack open the 5/16 bleeder..
Pull the throttle to wide open..
Make sure the shut off lever is in the run position..and/or if equipped, the electric shut off solenoid is getting 12v..
& spin the engine w the starter a couple of revolutions..
If the fuel doesn’t shoot out of the bleeder.. THATS a problem..
Good luck

 

[sbh111]

Using the h primer is forcing fuel thru the filters and pump..
By opening the bleeder by the n plate, THAT BLEEDER is past the internal supply pump, that s.p. raises low pressure inlet fuel to hi pressure that the pump needs to pump..
So if he’s not getting any fuel out of the open bleeder, at cranking speed.. THAT tells me the internal supply pump is not turning, hence seized..
It’s a simple 2 minute test..
Crack open the 5/16 bleeder..
Pull the throttle to wide open..
Make sure the shut off lever is in the run position..and/or if equipped, the electric shut off solenoid is getting 12v..
& spin the engine w the starter a couple of revolutions..
If the fuel doesn’t shoot out of the bleeder.. THATS a problem..
Good luck

Ok, loosened up the bleeder by the name plate and I do not get much of any fuel when I crank the engine over. I actually get more from it with the hand pump then cranking it over.

 

[thepumpguysc]

The pump is being driven by the gears up front..
It has a drive shaft that extends all the way to the back of the pump..
In the back end of the inj pump is a supply pump..
If the supply pump isn’t working, that means the shaft isn’t turning..(no fuel at the bleeder screw)
Your pump is locked up and snapped the head and rotor..
U can verify this by:
Removing the fuel inlet line from the back of the pump..
Remove the 4- 5/16 screws from the end plate..& remove the end plate..
Get someone to hit the key switch for about 2-3 seconds..
Look to SEE if the back part is turning..

 

[thepumpguysc]

Btw..if u changed the fuel filter with a WIX filter..did U put the upper oring ON the filter.??
If yes, forget everything I just wrote above.!!!
Pull the filter back apart and put the oring UP IN THE GROOVE in the filter head..
The filter seals on the lip of the filter..!!

 

[Dave Neubert]

Btw..if u changed the fuel filter with a WIX filter..did U put the upper oring ON the filter.??
If yes, forget everything I just wrote above.!!!
Pull the filter back apart and put the oring UP IN THE GROOVE in the filter head..
The filter seals on the lip of the filter..!!

Can't tell you how many calls i went to because someone put the seal in the filter and not the groove

 

[thepumpguysc]

I hear ya brother.!!
I got tired of making service calls for something so simple, I started telling them how to fix it..
I’d ask WHO put the pump on, first.. just to gauge the callers wrench turning ability..
It’s been YEARS since I’ve made a service call for that..

 

[sbh111]

Update! Good news, I had a local diesel guy stop by and it turns out I have a weak battery and it was air bound. A good bleed from someone that knows what to look for, a little ether and it fired right up. Now i just have to change out the o-rings and gasket on the top cover to stop the small weaping but at least its not gonna cost me $2500 for a new pump.

 

[thepumpguysc]

So no fuel at the bleeder screw was just air.??
Good thing u “know a guy” or it woulda cost u big bucks.. and you’da had the same problem..!!!