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protection for lightning

Andre Grondin

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Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
123
Location
Granby , Qc, Canada
Hi !

I'm a neewbie on this forum as well as in the trade , I would like to know
what are the protection we have in excavator against lightning ???

some people are saying that the cab is insulated !!! which I'm not sure that I would trust !!!

what you guy's think and know ???

regards
 

Steve Frazier

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Oct 30, 2003
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Location
LaGrangeville, N.Y.
I think you are asking about the risk as an operator in being injured if the machine is struck by lightning while you are operating. You are safe. The machine is providing the path to ground, not you. The only time you might be hurt is if you were outside in contact with both the machine and the ground at the same time, I'm not sure you'd be at much risk there either since the tracks would provide a far better ground than a person in shoes would.
 

powerjoke

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Aug 2, 2009
Messages
1,125
Location
Missouri
Occupation
owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
lightning dosent strike yellow paint that is why CaT uses it.

Pj
 

landrvrnut22

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Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
201
Location
Akron, Ohio, USA.
Occupation
Field Superintendent
I just send the laborer out with a 10' piece of copper pipe. He acts as the litghning rod, while we keep working. Works every time.
 

powerjoke

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Missouri
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owner/operator/estimator/mechanic/grunt/ditchdigge
maybe that's our problem.....we have been using PVC pipe all this time, come to think of it copper tube would work better :D

on a more serious note though, has anyone here ever lost a peice do to lightening? I cant say that I have ever heard of it.

Pj
 

countrylife

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
24
Location
Florida
Occupation
Retired
Many years ago a guy running a loader doing a job for me told me that he and his buddy were sitting under a machine (I didn't get the type or if it was tracked or wheeled) when lightening hit the machine. His buddy was touching the machine and was killed. He was deafened and had trouble seeing for about 3 days.
 

digger242j

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Oct 31, 2003
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6,664
Location
Southwestern PA
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Self employed excavator
The only time you might be hurt is if you were outside in contact with both the machine and the ground at the same time, I'm not sure you'd be at much risk there either since the tracks would provide a far better ground than a person in shoes would.

That part, I'll disagree with. Lightning is pretty funny stuff, and it will sometimes follow other paths in addition to the best ground. You need not be touching the machine. Just being close is risky.

Think of the advice to not seek shelter under a tree, for instance. It's because the tree is tall, but one would expect that the current would follow the tree, but it can also travel through you, if you're close enough.

A number of years ago, I was at an airshow, with the Civil Air Patrol. A thunderstorm swept in (ended the Blue Angels performace at about mid-show :mad:), and during the storm, lightning struck a beer truck parked near the edge of the display area. It reportedly struck the fiberglass CB antenna, mounted to the driver's side mirror. There were tiny bits of fiberglass spread over about a 50 foot diameter circle. The CAP airplane was parked nearby, and several people who had taken shelter beneath the wings were shocked as well. The people weren't in contact with either the plane or the truck, and obviously the truck wasn't in contact with the plane either.

I googled around a little for more information, and came across the National Lightning Safety Institute (NLSI). There's lots of good lightning info there. (More than I had time to read.)

Cut and pasted from their site. (I bolded the part that seems to apply most.):

Section 4.10

Lightning Safety for Outdoor Workers


Lightning safety awareness is a priority at all outdoor activities. No place outdoors is 100% safe from lightning. The important thing to remember is to "Anticipate a high-risk situation and move to a low-risk location." A comprehensive lightning safety program consists of the following details:

Detection. Lightning conditions are to be monitored continuously. In most cases, a combination of a lightning network subscription service, a professional-grade lightning warning system, and a high-quality hand-held detector is suggested. However, if thunder is heard, the danger is close enough to suspend operations and to seek refuge.

Notification. Suspension and resumption of work activities are planned in advance:
Yellow condition: 20-40 miles (30-60 km). Threat may exist.
Amber condition: 10-20 miles (16-30 km). Threat is nearby
Red alert: 0-10 miles (0-16 km). No one is permitted outdoors.

Safe shelter. Safe evacuation sites include:
Fully enclosed all-metal vehicles
Permanent, substantial buildings
Designated metal shelters especially designed
Other locations as identified by ES&H personnel

Unsafe areas during thunderstorms include proximity to all metal objects, such as power poles, fences and gates, light poles, metal machinery, electrical equipment, hauling machinery, and radio equipment. Avoid rooftops. Avoid water. Avoid all open areas.

Re-assess the threat. Wait until thunder is no longer heard before resuming activities. Be extra cautious during this storm phase, as the lightning danger still may be a significant hazard.

Resume normal outdoor activities.

Policies & procedures. Education & training.
People who have been struck by lightning do not carry an electrical charge and are safe to assist. Apply first aid immediately if you are qualified to do so. Get emergency help promptly.
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Wouldn't a lightning strike be almost the same if a part of the machine came into contact with a high voltage line? Best place is in the machine, as standing near the machine without even touching it could be fatal.
 

digger242j

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Self employed excavator
Wouldn't a lightning strike be almost the same if a part of the machine came into contact with a high voltage line?

I would think it would be similar.

Another misconception that people have, is that you're safe in a car or truck because it's on rubber tires, which will act as an insulator. The reason you're safe is that the metal of the vehicle is a much better conductor than you are, so the current follows the metal to the ground, and doesn't need to travel through you.

I probably should have noted above that moving some distance away from the machine might protect you if the machine did happen to get struck, but if you were still in an open area, the lightning might just prefer to strike you directly, and spare the machine.

I was on the job once when a truck driver raised his bed into contact with a 28,000 volt line. It blew all four tires across the rear axle, and one of the front ones. If they were such a good insulator, you'd expect the truck to have been unaffected by the voltage.

The way I always looked at it, if that current can arc through the space of several miles of air (the distance between the clouds and the ground), then it really isn't going to have much trouble arcing several feet or yards further.
 

OCR

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
protection for lightning:

I think you've pretty well nailed'er, digger242j... :thumbsup

Excellent fact about the tires, too... spot on!!!


OCR
 

bill onthehill

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
661
Location
pa/ny border
I saw a rubber tired crane hit a high voltage line 30 years ago. The tires did nothing to stop the current flow. The crane and the tires and the operator burned and melted in a few minutes. Made me always aware of power lines when operating near them. Hitting a primary underground you may get off with just burning up the bucket and boom but overhead is not pretty. Have seen what a dump looks like after hitting a power line and it is not pretty either.
 

OCR

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Feb 21, 2008
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1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
protection for lightning:

Bill, I think there's a picture, or video, of that floating around some where on this site... I know I've seen a picture of a crane on fire, some where on the Net...

I'll do some looking....

This might be it:

http://205.243.100.155/frames/longarc.htm#Crane

Or, go here and scroll down to Link Belt crane....

http://205.243.100.155/frames/longarc.htm


Might not be the same one, quote from site....
Fortunately, the crane's operator escapes with only minor injuries.



OCR
 
Last edited:

Reuben

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
450
Location
north central pa
maybe that's our problem.....we have been using PVC pipe all this time, come to think of it copper tube would work better :D

on a more serious note though, has anyone here ever lost a peice do to lightening? I cant say that I have ever heard of it.

Pj

There was A guy in Bradford,pa that had his brand new linkbelt 160 struck by lightning while it was parked over night. When he showed up in the morning he noticed the machine smelled of burnt plastic. When he tried to unlock the door the key would not work. He called the dealer and they sent a mechanic out. after inspecting the machine they found that it had indeed been struck by lightning and everything electrical including computer was fried. A big insurance claim later that was all fixed and then a little while later several different barings started failing throughout the machine. After a few months the insurance co finally just scrapped the machine and got him a new one.
 

diggerop

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Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
159
Location
QLD , Australia
Occupation
Plant operator, coal mining/ 25 years
:eek::jawdrop
Notice that it didn't happen until a few minutes later.
 

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KMB83

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Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
106
Location
illinois
Occupation
farmer
I remember my physics professor talking about the different planes of travel electricity takes once its on the ground.

So like Digger's story at the air show, some people standing right next to the beer truck could be fine(actually that sounds like a really good spot to be). And then say 50yds away someone had one foot in one plane of current and the other in a different one and thus be a conduit for the electricity and die.

it was an interesting concept. The teacher used a real example of a baseball diamond and the strike was in the infield, the pitcher was fine and two outfielders perished....
 

Steve Frazier

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LaGrangeville, N.Y.
Last summer we had an especially violent thunderstorm in the afternoon and our fire department got several calls for houses struck by lightning. On the one that I went to, the brick chimney was struck, exploding the top of the chimney. The house was on a culdesac and we parked the trucks there. As the firefighters were investigating the strike, I noticed brick debris in the roadway where I had parked the truck over 1/4 mile away. There's some amount of power in lightning!
 

Kyle B Pettigrew

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Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
1
Location
Branford, FL
Occupation
Forestry Resources Inc. Front End Loader Operator
Ok random question on the topic. New to the forum by the way. So in say a John Deere 544J wheel loader would placing your bucket on the ground give the lightning a means of travel to ground to maybe bypass the occupant? Possibly try electronics and blow fuses...but maybe save a life?
 

hosspuller

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Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,873
Location
North Carolina
Sitting in the metal cab is the safest place to be in a lightening strike. Google "Faraday cage" the electricity flows around the cab instead of through it.
 

Queenslander

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Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
1,256
Location
Australia
Friends of ours lost a son to lightning strike when he jumped off a dozer and was running to his work truck.
I’ve been in the same situation myself... in the heat of the moment, it doesn’t make sense to remain sitting in an all metal machine when the relative safety of a vehicle is just there.
 
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