Seed Variety's

[Deere9670]

After reading the previous thread about corn, and the different seed variety's, it got me thinking about the new ones that are coming out. Pioneer is really pushing its Y series soybean, but is it really as good as its cracked up to be? The local pioneer rep. did a test plot with some Y #'s and compared to the M beans, the Y numbers were very disappointing. Any other farmers heard anything the same?:beatsme

 

[j&d]

Hi Deere9670

I have no plot data to share at this time and can't share any personal yield data. That said... The y series beans have not had anything close to overwhelming approval on two of the farm sites I frequent. fwiw. The sales pitch often is a result of the company trying to recoup as much research and development money as possible the first years on the market. I believe much more research needs to be done to increase bean yields. Lets be patient though, I think its coming.
You planting more beans this year? Our rotation takes us to about 60% corn.

 

[KMB83]

yeah....

from a theory standpoint all the y series is are beans that they selected from a pool of varieties that all showed to have the correct sequence of genes. those gene sequences they identified as have some control over yield, and whenever that certain sequence of yield enhancement appeared those beans happened to be good in test. so they basically ran DNA's of there beans and selected for ones having that gene sequence.

so are they gang buster? from what i've heard from the guys raising seed beans for them, some where great others just ho hum.

now monsanto and RR2yield... this is a changing of where they inserted RR resistance in the plant. basically they changed the loci and did away with the "yield drag" associated with RR beans that some guys have talked about when there was still comparisons in 97-98. monsanto wont ever fess up to there being a yield drag, but why would you spend the bucks to research a different insertion process if all was well?

similar story, the guys who raised seed beans for them said some of my best and some of my worst. monsanto has an invested interest in making there new (and higher cost) product look good.

neither of these new beans are miles ahead of the old. both are touting ~8-10% yield. both are splashing the cadillac seed treatment. is the boost, the bean or the goop? 10% is roughly 5bu/ac. nothing radical, but something that would move the market if one were real and the other advertising.

 

[dirt digger]

i would look at FS Growmark...had a buddy that interned with them this summer and did a lot of test plot testing and analysis...they way he was talking it seems to be one of the best seed lines out there right now as for corn

 

[KMB83]

F and S.....

they all sell more dekalb than there own brands around here, by a very large margin. i always felt FS got a bad wrap for there products in illinois, i think more of it had to do with the guy behind the counter didnt get them positioned. he is standing there supposed to know about fertilizer, chem, elevator, and oh about 6 seed companies product lines. ends up being very dependent on having a high quality man, which they have retention issues here.

F and S could have some good products in PA, regionality makes a huge difference on a variety, or even a companies product line.

 

[j&d]

Thanks KMB83

Thanks for the info on how the Y series and RR2Yield were derived. I had never had that explained to me. Interesting. IMHO they are looking in the wrong direction for increased yields. Resistance to diseases and above and below ground pests will do more for increased yields than genetics at this point. I hope thats what comes next.?

 

[Deere9670]

. The sales pitch often is a result of the company trying to recoup as much research and development money as possible the first years on the market.
You planting more beans this year? Our rotation takes us to about 60% corn.

I couldent agree more with you on that about the sales pitch and first year market. I think with the price of seed beans, you will see alot of guys pulling out seed strait from the bin....cleaning it..... and blending it with the bought seed(as to not make it noticeable). If this happens its just going to throw the acre count off, and mess up the whole system!:Banghead As for our rotation, we will not be planting any corn on corn, and stick to the normal rotation, which will put us about even on corn/beans. The market looks like it may be coming back, so thats a plus!:beatsme

 

[KMB83]

deere,

deep word of caution on bin run beans.

there are things to do to tell the big boys how much you disagree with there business practices, bin run beans is an ugly way to go.

let me preface these comments with a couple stories....(i like stories)

1. a guy that works our account used to be a seed piracy enforcer for mother M. his stories are ridiculous. hiring Private eyes to ride around in beaters taking pictures. following the seed cleaner. having the paperwork trail all tied down on beans bought (even from competitors) and chemical usage (even generics). taking satelite imagery of the offender dumping beans in the planter, etc....

2. had a guy not so far away, owned 2500+ acres and had a chain of deere equipment dealerships. not a poor ole boy. anyway, one of the first to get caught bin running. they took it ALL. he spent 5 years in the big house.... they intend to make the punishment steep enough to discourage, and if they catch ya, they intend to take you to rug. mainly to keep the neighbors from getting ideas. if you step back and look at there business, it is all patents. those are the keys to city.

3. if you have any neighbors. (mainly the ones who are paying full price). that you have ever pissed off, ran over their dog, rented a piece of ground out of, fooled around with the daughter of, bid against at an auction, is a bean dealer, or think they could pick up your acres by taking you down. be real careful. lots of good people out there, but theres lots of bad too.....most everyone has at least one chrony in the area they dont see eye to eye with....

bin run beans = thin ice

 

[Deere9670]

1. a guy that works our account used to be a seed piracy enforcer for mother M. his stories are ridiculous. hiring Private eyes to ride around in beaters taking pictures. following the seed cleaner. having the paperwork trail all tied down on beans bought (even from competitors) and chemical usage (even generics). taking satelite imagery of the offender dumping beans in the planter, etc....

2. had a guy not so far away, owned 2500+ acres and had a chain of deere equipment dealerships. not a poor ole boy. anyway, one of the first to get caught bin running. they took it ALL. he spent 5 years in the big house.... they intend to make the punishment steep enough to discourage, and if they catch ya, they intend to take you to rug. mainly to keep the neighbors from getting ideas. if you step back and look at there business, it is all patents. those are the keys to city.

3. if you have any neighbors. (mainly the ones who are paying full price). that you have ever pissed off, ran over their dog, rented a piece of ground out of, fooled around with the daughter of, bid against at an auction, is a bean dealer, or think they could pick up your acres by taking you down. be real careful. lots of good people out there, but theres lots of bad too.....most everyone has at least one chrony in the area they dont see eye to eye with....

bin run beans = thin ice

Wow KMB, those are some crazy stories!!!! A spy?????? Holy crap, I dident think mother M was that crazy! I never said that I did it, all I was saying is that with the price that they are asking for seed......they are just asking for it!

 

[Feed Bunk]

deere,

deep word of caution on bin run beans.

there are things to do to tell the big boys how much you disagree with there business practices, bin run beans is an ugly way to go.

let me preface these comments with a couple stories....(i like stories)

1. a guy that works our account used to be a seed piracy enforcer for mother M. his stories are ridiculous. hiring Private eyes to ride around in beaters taking pictures. following the seed cleaner. having the paperwork trail all tied down on beans bought (even from competitors) and chemical usage (even generics). taking satelite imagery of the offender dumping beans in the planter, etc....

2. had a guy not so far away, owned 2500+ acres and had a chain of deere equipment dealerships. not a poor ole boy. anyway, one of the first to get caught bin running. they took it ALL. he spent 5 years in the big house.... they intend to make the punishment steep enough to discourage, and if they catch ya, they intend to take you to rug. mainly to keep the neighbors from getting ideas. if you step back and look at there business, it is all patents. those are the keys to city.

3. if you have any neighbors. (mainly the ones who are paying full price). that you have ever pissed off, ran over their dog, rented a piece of ground out of, fooled around with the daughter of, bid against at an auction, is a bean dealer, or think they could pick up your acres by taking you down. be real careful. lots of good people out there, but theres lots of bad too.....most everyone has at least one chrony in the area they dont see eye to eye with....

bin run beans = thin ice

Thats quite a deal. We clean seed, and have never got a call from mother m. However we have friends that clean seed, that have had private eyes sit across the road and take pictures. If someone brings us beans to clean, we clean them. If they are RR we dont know and dont ask. The funny thing is on the bean bags it says patend pending. The patend was supposed to run out in 07 so it makes you wonder. As far as pioneer I dont know, were nk dealers but their jerking us over to garst this year.

 

[KMB83]

feedbunk,

they are moving you from nk to garst on beans? i've heard garst guys grumbling about having to move to nk beans. assuming they didnt bail with donny funk over to midwest....

i'm not a sargenta fella so what you say goes. it was always explained to me that the nk side had a better legal position on licenses so they moved the garst/golden harvest bean business torwards nk.

the sargenta strategy as explained to me was threefold (but this was on corn):

NK - predominantly retail outlets
Garst - maintain dealers, but mainly direct sales
Golden Harvest - focus on farmer dealers

supposedly sargenta has some real deals on beans. RR1's treated with cruiser maxx in the mid 40's?

this is all heresay so straighten me out....

oh and hey how close where you to that farmers coop in MO that mother M tangled with?

 

[Feed Bunk]

The retail outlets like mfa are getting the beans for sure. We may get some nk corn. Were farmer dealers but have heard nothing about golden harvest. Our elevators in town get pretty competitive on price, and one of them was selling nk beans below our dealer cost. So we werent selling to many beans any way. We dont expect our customers to come to us when they can get the same stuff cheaper. This year we're ordering enough for us, and cutting down on the retail. It hasnt been a big money maker, and its hard to service customers when your trying to plant.

What was the Farmers coop that mother m busted?

 

[KMB83]

Feedbunk,

Pilot Grove.... ever heard of there?

here is an article on this and other topics, towards the bottom under scorched earth tactics is the scoop on pilot grove. http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805?currentPage=2

the article above it is about a surveillance gig. pretty interesting.

not shocking on NK beans from a retailer being priced very competitive. they have in general the cheapest bean prices i've been hearing.

understood on the planting time thing, do you guys have a bulk delivery point, or where you just servicing others with bagged beans?

bulk looks slick, but i dont know about having someone man the bin site during planting time for customers

 

[Feed Bunk]

That is interesting.

We were just servicing customers with bags or boxes. One elevator in town has a huge bulk station for pioneer beans. Its got a lot of large operators running out of it though.