-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Sizing pull type equipment to crawler vs wheeled tractors
- Thread starter MG84
- Start date
1693TA
Senior Member
Thanks. I have some roads to make and a creek to bridge on our family property that is very hilly so don't want to enlist an end dump and certainly don't want to push dirt that far. I think a pan would serve to lessen the hillside roadway incline by scraping some near the top, and filling closer to the bottom. The process is reversed once across the creek at the bottom.
Like you I've looked for used and haven't ran across anything fitting the size I'm looking for. Many are high priced and need a lot of refurbishment for what is asked. I'd like to have one about 8ft. wide so it could be pulled without a permit when moving distance, and match closely to the dozer.
Like you I've looked for used and haven't ran across anything fitting the size I'm looking for. Many are high priced and need a lot of refurbishment for what is asked. I'd like to have one about 8ft. wide so it could be pulled without a permit when moving distance, and match closely to the dozer.
1693TA
Senior Member
Hoelscher Commercial Products - DB Scraper
Hoelscher is a Bushton, Kansas hay baling equipment and earth moving equipment manufacturer.
www.hoelscherinc.com
What attracted me to this one was I can dump the bowl to about a 45 degree angle and use it like a grader planing off the high spots on the fill. I can do a pretty decent job finishing with it. Some others that use the funky monkey motion linkage and do everything with one remote dump over the back and I didn't want to be bouncing over lumpy spreads. This one does a nice job spreading the load.
There's also Durabilt that has a 7 foot wide unit. I considered the 5 foot model but the way the bowl and fixed apron work, I didn't think it would be able to swallow large clumps of grass inherent in ditch spoils. https://www.durabiltindustries.com/dirtpan.aspx
There's also Durabilt that has a 7 foot wide unit. I considered the 5 foot model but the way the bowl and fixed apron work, I didn't think it would be able to swallow large clumps of grass inherent in ditch spoils. https://www.durabiltindustries.com/dirtpan.aspx
1693TA
Senior Member
I purchased a land plane, (Woods Bros.) but haven't broken it out of the crate yet for finish work. I've never used one myself, but the videos and people I've talked with really say they work slick.
This road I want to cut drops about 90 feet+ in a horizontal 750 foot run so quite steep. It is currently wooded where this road is to punch through. Then the same on the other side of the creek to get back to the other side of the property. Currently the back acreage is accessible by ATV and a snug fit with a mid sized SUV. A "ring" road currently exists that goes around in a large arc, but to cut that hillside back to widen to road has basically been ruled out as too much negative impact to the existing tree line as have to comply with aesthetics, and wildlife requirements/demands.
If I can get one of these scrapers acquired I think with a couple hydraulic remotes added to my dozer, an another on my 2-55 White mowing tractor, I would be set for this job and into the future needs.
I've been around scrapers in many years past but they were all ejector type and much larger.
Thanks,
This road I want to cut drops about 90 feet+ in a horizontal 750 foot run so quite steep. It is currently wooded where this road is to punch through. Then the same on the other side of the creek to get back to the other side of the property. Currently the back acreage is accessible by ATV and a snug fit with a mid sized SUV. A "ring" road currently exists that goes around in a large arc, but to cut that hillside back to widen to road has basically been ruled out as too much negative impact to the existing tree line as have to comply with aesthetics, and wildlife requirements/demands.
If I can get one of these scrapers acquired I think with a couple hydraulic remotes added to my dozer, an another on my 2-55 White mowing tractor, I would be set for this job and into the future needs.
I've been around scrapers in many years past but they were all ejector type and much larger.
Thanks,
I may have missed it, but what kind of dozer are you using? Sounds like you and I are in a similar situation wanting a decent, smaller pull type scraper.
I’m now thinking maybe something in the 3-5yd range would be best suited to my dozer, must be dolly wheel configuration.
It would seem that using a dozer to pull a scraper would be slow and expensive per hour. More of a question than a statement, I have no experience with it. There are quite a few guys with pans leveling fields here for flood irrigation. So while I don't do it, I see a lot of it. Most use Steigers pulling large pans, and MFD tractors pulling smaller pans.
1693TA
Senior Member
I have a Fiat-Allis 11B tractor. This was a direct competitor with the Caterpillar D6C, and International TD-15 series when new in 1975 as I understand:
In good conditions a wheeled tractor is quicker and cheaper, but when the conditions get tough a crawler tractor will excel. Steep ground, soft ground, hard pulls, etc. Hence my desire to have a scraper sized to both my dozer and farm tractor.
The pull type scraper has really fallen out of favor for the small contractor, but IMO it’s one of the best kept secrets in earthmoving. With the right setup and conditions the yardage one man can move with relatively small equipment is remarkable.
Last edited:
Yeah thats a lot more tractor than I’m working with. All the scrapers we’ve been discussing would turn into a pretzel behind a crawler tractor that size!
1693TA
Senior Member
I certainly understand the undersizing but a scraper would be utilized much more behind the tractor than the crawler; hence the desired size. Sounds very much like we're on the same page with needs. I only have the one personal job needing done which is not small in size and the distance needed addressed is quite a lot to move dirt from and to. If the area were flat I'd use my 51 Mack dump truck to move dirt as I know it would be faster.
Our property is former strip mined ground from the 1930's. The hills are piled spoils from before land reclamation was even thought of so the ravines are very steep. It is a 30 acre parcel that is a rectangle and with exception of 2.92 acres of flat area up front at the main entrance, is completely overgrown in trees and brush. There is another near 12 acres at the rear area that is flat but overgrown to be developed. A hunter's paradise really although we limit that activity to just a couple of close friends.
It can be a real escape from reality, or the "hum drum" of life for us and the grand kids.
Our property is former strip mined ground from the 1930's. The hills are piled spoils from before land reclamation was even thought of so the ravines are very steep. It is a 30 acre parcel that is a rectangle and with exception of 2.92 acres of flat area up front at the main entrance, is completely overgrown in trees and brush. There is another near 12 acres at the rear area that is flat but overgrown to be developed. A hunter's paradise really although we limit that activity to just a couple of close friends.
It can be a real escape from reality, or the "hum drum" of life for us and the grand kids.
1693TA
Senior Member
petepilot
Senior Member
that fiat allis will handle a 10 yrd . pan easily
1693TA
Senior Member
Thanks, I was actually wondering about that earlier. I wonder if the thought process should be more of a larger pan, or scraper an not plan on use behind the tractor? This is a "one off" need really although more use will be found. If I did go with a larger pan then the thought process would probably go back to a sheep's foot roller also as the fill, or lifts would be deeper.
I have no experience with this dozer in operation so feel free to contribute.
Thanks,
I have no experience with this dozer in operation so feel free to contribute.
Thanks,
1693TA
Senior Member
On various sites I've been looking at I do continue to see several pans built for being pulled with a dozer. I've looked at a couple local offerings and they have just been almost worn out but still priced high IMO. Still not seeing a lot of the smaller ones for tractor use. It was this dual purpose in mind being the motivator for the smaller unit. I have the dozer, and means to move it readily, but dependent upon physical weight, could I do everything in a single move? I don't know as too many open ends now.
The short time I worked in the miines I was apprentice training on tracked undercarriage, finals repair, and line boring work. The only scrapers I seen, but never worked around were IH "PayScraper" branded and self powered. I think one had an engine in the front and rear but don't remember for certain. Don't mind buying something needing "trued up", but don't want a major reconstruction as don't have the infrastructure in place for that.
The short time I worked in the miines I was apprentice training on tracked undercarriage, finals repair, and line boring work. The only scrapers I seen, but never worked around were IH "PayScraper" branded and self powered. I think one had an engine in the front and rear but don't remember for certain. Don't mind buying something needing "trued up", but don't want a major reconstruction as don't have the infrastructure in place for that.
1693TA
Senior Member
Appreciate your input and to be honest, I don't get along with running "junk" very well at all. Just me. If I drag something home that is loose I can line bore and weld it up for correct operation if the project is deemed worthy. I have that setup and most tooling needed adding to it when needed.
Ran by and looked at a pan this morning I'd ruled out last year. It is a converted from cable operation to hydraulic and well worn in any joint that has movement. One tire is very worn and the other has zippered from age, and exposure. I want to say this was pulled by either a D7, or D8 dozer but I've never seen it operate. It is loose in the hinges and I don't think I'd have the equipment to safely support breaking it apart for repairs. I could purchase for scrap price easy enough but I'd think it would be better off to purchase something in better condition.
I'd left my phone at home but will go back this next week and snap photos. Don't know if something I should pursue or not. I didn't see any name tags or model numbers anyplace. The paddles are worn and the cutting edge is in the dirt for many years actually buried but well blunted from use. This is at a former coal mine that shut down in the mid 1990's.
Probably not if you'd be fixing everything. Running it yourself is a little different, you don't have to worry about an employee pulling it apart with the dozer. If you're the only one that will use it with the dozer, you can be a little more careful.
Is this an elevating scraper, not that it matters.
1693TA
Senior Member
I believe it is as supposedly the former cable apparatus was used to lift the cutting edge. Much of the original apparatus has been replaced with hydraulic cylinders that look to direct act on the bowl and frame.