SK135SR-1 Arm Swing Problem

[TKM5890]

Hello!!Professionals!!

SK135-1 Arm and swing movement is worse only when the front attachment is operated.
To be precise, the movement slows down for about 1 second after the operation.
Otherwise there is no problem.

The front attachment is operated by a solenoid valve, not a foot pedal.

IMG_5396.MOV

drive.google.com

 

[Kobe Steel]

Hello Sir

What type of attachment is being operated ?

Do you have or can you supply pictures and a description of how the attachment is connected to the machines main control valve?

What functions are not working normally when the attachment is being operated?

Kind regards

 

[TKM5890]

Link permissions have been updated.
Can I view it?

IMG_5396.MOV

drive.google.com

Attachment is equipped with a forestry grapple.

The grapple is connected to the option2 port on the P2 side (LEFT TRAVEL / SWING / ARM ). It is a one way so called breaker piping. Pilot pressure is controlled by a solenoid valve.

After operating the attachment, ARM&SWING is extremely slow. After about 1 second (after the bypass cut solenoid is released) it returns to normal speed. It is running during attachment operation.

Today I noticed that if I operate the arm or SWING lightly while operating the attachment only, the movement of the attachment accelerates.
When I disconnected the coupler on the P2 side of the “309” of the hydrauliccircuit, the attachment stopped working. However, when the ARM or SWING is lightly operated, the attachment works.

I suspect the check valve on “CP2(512)” & “LCO2”.

 

[Kobe Steel]

Try checking on the monitor that SE11 - P2 option sensor is detecting the pilot signal when the machine operates the attachment via its solenoid control and that the machine is set in attachment mode.

Kind regards

 

[TKM5890]

SE-11 P OPTION Pressure sensor

No15_P1P2Option_Pressure.MOV

drive.google.com

P-2 BY-PAS CUT SOLENOID

No21_P2CUT_SOLENOID.MOV

drive.google.com

I did not know how to check the attachment mode.
Could you please tell me?

Thank you very much.

 

[Kobe Steel]

here is some information in regards to setting attachment mode for breaker or nibbler. I would suggest trying the machine in nibble mode by switching the conflux switch over. I have also attached information regarding the language change for the screen display if by chance this is not set in the language you prefer. This info is take from a different model machine but the principal would still be the same.
Best regards.

 

[TKM5890]

Thank you very much for the data.

I looked for the conflux switch at the left rear of the cabin but did not find it.
The switch frame had a hole space in it so I removed the instrument panel and looked for the switch but could not find it.

I removed the left side lever panel and found a 2-pole coupler that looked like a conflux flow switch, so I connected the wire directly to it, but there was no response.
↑I may have made a mistake.

I found a single pole coupler marked “FlowContol” but this is not the same, is it?

I will look for more conflux switch.

 

[TKM5890]

I was able to turn on the N&B CONFLUX SWITCH.
But the strange behavior did not change.

ConfluxswitchON.MOV

drive.google.com

When I was fiddling with the wiring, I noticed that the smart relay seems to control the current of the solenoid for the pilot pressure on the breaker piping.

There seems to be a timer set to turn off about 1 second after the operation of the control lever knob switch is completed.

 

[Kobe Steel]

Apologies, after looking back at you videos and posts I now understand your issue. I had initially thought the attachment stopped working when you operated the arm.
If I have read the manual correctly then the Travel Straight valve would not be in operation when a fine arm in or out operation is performed but if for some reason their was still a small signal holding the TS valve on while the P1 bypass was open then this may initially create a loss of flow for the arm or swing movements. Try disconnecting the TS valve solenoid so no combined pump operation is permitted, this will throw a fault code but it would be interesting to see if the fault still exists.
Apologies again for the misunderstanding.
Kind regards

 

[LACHAU]

I was really surprised to read that your machine is installed with the IDEC FL1E-H12RCE "SMART RELAY". "SMART RELAY" is a compact PLC (Programmable Logic Control) and its use is very complicated. It is really unnecessary if your machine only has one accessory.

Obviously we cannot understand the owner's intention before they installed that "SMART RELAY"!!!
Therefore, in my opinion, you should remove that SR and rewire the switches and sensors according to the Kobelco manual you have.
I believe you can rewire the sensors and switches... according to the Kobelco manual.

 

[LACHAU]

For more details.

 

[TKM5890]

I removed the TRAVEL STRAIGHT SOLENOID coupler. But the strange behavior did not change.

AttachmentSpeedAccel.MOV

drive.google.com

I noticed something new.
Arming out or SWINGing during the ATTACHMENT operation accelerates the speed of the attachment.

Mr. LACHAU.
Thank you for the DATA.
The wiring diagram is very clear.
Can you tell me where you purchased it?

 

[Kobe Steel]

I noticed something new.
Arming out or SWINGing during the ATTACHMENT operation accelerates the speed of the attachment.

It is possible that the main pump displacement increases when operating the joystick arm or swing functions and the joystick low pressure sensor voltages increases to a value higher than the set value of the rotator function.
Lachau suggestion of rewiring the rotator low pressure signal back to factory set up is definitely worth considering. I can only think that the plc relay is used to give a ramping and delay controllability to a solenoid pilot valve.

I will dig through my information regarding the "hidden mode" feature where you can change milliamp settings for fine adjustment control on a number of functions. This is not a feature that is outlined in workshop manuals but it may be worth trying.

Kind regards

 

[LACHAU]

I removed the TRAVEL STRAIGHT SOLENOID coupler. But the strange behavior did not change.

AttachmentSpeedAccel.MOV

drive.google.com

I noticed something new.
Arming out or SWINGing during the ATTACHMENT operation accelerates the speed of the attachment.

Mr. LACHAU.
Thank you for the DATA.
The wiring diagram is very clear.
Can you tell me where you purchased it?

I thought you already had the shop manual for this machine.
Okay, here it is for your reference.
Of course, it is free, you don't need to buy it
To clarify:
The hydraulic diagram I posted above is taken from the SK135SR shop manual but I have edited it to make it clearer and easier to read.

Link to download: Kobelco SK115SR_SK135SR shop manual

 

[LACHAU]

You go to "SERVICE MENU" to collect data as in the picture I attached below:
1/- When you only operate the attachment.
2/- When you combine operate the attachment and operate ARM or Swing simultaneously.

 

[TKM5890]

Mr KOBE STEEL
I tried to remove the smart relay but the wiring is very complicated and it will take some time. Please wait a moment. I am thinking of replacing it with a simple relay.

Mr LACHAU
Thank you for the manual.
The one I have is in black and white and the hydraulic circuit and wiring diagrams are hard to read.

I checked the values in the service menu.
No20_460mA to 700mA
No21_565mA→565mA
No22_489mA→489mA
No24_485mA→485mA
No25_455mA→550mA (Maybe after attachment & arm operation. Will check again)

 

[TKM5890]

It's hard to see in the sunlight, but here's a video

No20_P1CUT.MOV

drive.google.com

No21_P2CUT.MOV

drive.google.com

No22_TSV.MOV

drive.google.com

No24_P1.MOV

drive.google.com

No25_P2.MOV

drive.google.com

 

[TKM5890]

One progress has been made.

During attachment operation, when turning or arming out, the attachment would accelerate.

The result was that the attachment pilot pressure was low. We do not know why it was low.

Before adjustment 2.1V 12k
After adjustment 4.8V 30k

I tried to replace the smart relay with a common relay but could not. The Smart Relay is a proportional control switch, so a standard relay would not work well. The smart relay was designed to detect the frequency input.

 

[Kobe Steel]

So you now have full secondary pilot pressure supplied to the option spool.
Has this fixed you delay issue and is the rotator still operating within the right speed you require?

Kind regards

 

[TKM5890]

The rotator is moving at the required speed.

However, the delay in the Excavator was not resolved.

I will check again with the P2 CUT SOLENOID coupler disconnected.