SuperTrak Biobaler making Pinyon/Juniper bales

[LanceNE]

Short clip of BioBaler making bales out of pinyon and juniper trees in Utah


[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/LanceUT?feature=mhee#p/f/1/TpFgYqfA894[/video]

 

[Justin]

so how big of trees can it cut and how close to the ground. How does it do on saplings, and how much money?
looks like a good idea, I wonder how well it will hold up?

 

[JTL]

Thats a great idea.Very surprized to see see the Forest Circus care for the land. Up this way they would rather see it turn red and burn up. But who is buying the bales? Have they built a biomass burner somewhere in Utah? I'm sure Weyerhaeuser or Potlatch would be all over something like that if it was profitable in the un-governmented world.

 

[LanceNE]

I think it would occasionally cut 8 inch trees, but probably more efficient on those less than 8 inches. It goes right to the ground. Although, I think if you are looking for the biomass to be a fuel source.... probably going to pull up too much dirt unless you hold it off the ground a little bit. Flies right through saplings, didn't look like they had to slow down much. After the trials here in Beaver, Ut, it went to northern AZ to see how it fared in brush oak. Sounds like it did very well there.
Part of the Forest Service equipment study is geared toward cost efficiency of different types of Pinyon/Juniper harvest. Should have some data hopefully in the next month or so on cost per acre, per ton, etc.

 

[SPMiller]

That's going to wear.

 

[JTL]

So, pretty much what you are saying is that it is a compleate waste of time and money. Just like any government supported program. Why not just let the people that know how to manage forest land and the such just have full controll of their ground? Leave the desert ground the F alone and manage the timber that is in dire need of help. The Circus should be eliminated and all the land they are in controll of should be given back to us, the citizens who pay for it, to hire a private company do what needs to be done; PROPER FORESTERY MANAGEMENT.
We would see improvement in forest health, plus econimic growth in the same day.

 

[Redwood Climber]

Government waste............

So, pretty much what you are saying is that it is a compleate waste of time and money. Just like any government supported program. Why not just let the people that know how to manage forest land and the such just have full controll of their ground? Leave the desert ground the F alone and manage the timber that is in dire need of help. The Circus should be eliminated and all the land they are in controll of should be given back to us, the citizens who pay for it, to hire a private company do what needs to be done; PROPER FORESTERY MANAGEMENT.
We would see improvement in forest health, plus econimic growth in the same day.

The Forest Service has done many studies that have benifited the timber industry, but the waste has far exceeded any benifits. We have hundreds of billions of dollars of timber standing going to waste. I love and use wilderness areas too, but we have to get back to reality. God gave us this earth to use (wisely), not just to look at.

Hopefully we are entering an era where unemployed government workers (starting with congress and the buearacratic regulators),will far exceed unemployed private sector workers.

I appreciate the new technologies and machines that are coming out, but we need to let the market drive the demand, not the governmental demand drive the market.
When the government tries to "make the free market system work" all they do is screw it up, and we the people get to pay the costs on both ends...........

JTL.........it's your fault, you got me going now...........government waste makes my blood boil over...............

 

[LanceNE]

Whoa! I could go on and on about govt mismanagement, and how public lands are not managed.
We are government contractors, so we know all the BS involved, especially the political end.
The machinery that is being tested was NOT designed by the Forest Service or any other govt agency but private companies. The Forest Service grant is to test equipment on the cost feasibility. I know there is a tremendous amount that needs to be done to fix public lands. Yes there is waste in the govt but hopefully the next generation coming up is more than tired of it. An interesting development on this study is - the study is being done by FS on BLM ground. Now if that isn't a mix of worms!
As far as wearing, I've baled hundreds of thousands of hay bales, and now I've bullhogged hundreds of thousands of trees, and I think both technologies can stand up. Although a combination could be interesting in trees.

 

[LanceNE]

The type of projects we work on are Pinyon/Juniper........emphasizing on Pinyon/Juniper encroachment into native sage brush. If you are familiar with the Juniper species, the same type of encroachment is happening on private ground through out the midwest. They are a native tree that thrives when fire is removed from the scenario. If you introduce fire now with this type of canopy cover, dire consequence can result. One of the neat quotes that we had from a life long forester .....forester was being questioned on forest management as we don't clear cut and we are manipulating the system.... "man has been manipulating the system since he set foot on this continent thousands of years ago". The reality is if we can use knowledge to benefit the eco system, we would be fools not to.

 

[LanceNE]

Some of the bales from the BioBaler portion have been taken up to INL (Idaho National Lab) for testing. Their plan is to run them through a grinder and then pelletize them. If the lab tests come back in acceptable levels, they want to try co-firing them in a coal plant in Utah. We move a lot of material for firewood and mulch, but you are very right when you ask where they are going. That has to be answered first.

 

[forester]

Been similar studies here in Canada but trucking costs + road safety for hauling slash products have been big limits on feeding co-gen plants (which are privately run and can sell power back to the provincial grid in Alberta). The bio-baler appears on the surface to be able to get a dense enough bale that it can be safely hauled (unlike previous bundling attempts) but trucking vs cost recovery from the power plants is still a big factor as most of our wood supply is outside the economic range of the bundling. Should natural gas prices go up then the collection range expands...

Won't comment on US land management as I don't work down there and am not familar enough with it.

 

[LanceNE]

Yes the trucking costs are a major obstacle. There is a lot of research right now trying to condense the biomass or densify it to help reduce trucking costs. Also some pretty interesting stuff going on with trying to process it right on site, which if that ever comes through would really cut the gap.