8k bill
Well-Known Member
I put salt tracs on my d4 and didn't last 3000 hours. Like what scrub says a few links go dry and before you know it you got chewed out sprockets. The extra you pay for them IMO is not worth it.
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System one undercarriage.
- Thread starter Scrub Puller
- Start date
d4c24a
Senior Member
A contractor running D8K,s with hydraulic boxs in the UK has recently got 9400 hrs out of genuine cat running gear , the chains are SALT too
watglen
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 1,324
- Location
- Dunnville, Ontario, Canada
- Occupation
- Farmer, drainage and excavating contractor, Farm d
Another thread is discussing frozen seals in a salt track, tearing out in frozen conditions, losing oil.
Can that happen with the sys 1 tracks as well?
Ken
Can that happen with the sys 1 tracks as well?
Ken
Nelsonequip
Well-Known Member
Agree ....:drinkup
Nelsonequip
Well-Known Member
System one.....my experience around my area they call it system one because if you stick with the system you'll have a system one......two....three....get the idea seriously he has not held up in our area. I will say to my knowledge cat has stood behind it for the people I know....that's cat corporate not the dealership :deadhorse I think you'll find that will be something that you be at a coffee shop with some old friends talking...hey you remember that undercarriage....that ahh...oh yea system one :falldownlaugh
in my area (Northern England) the S1 hasn't gone down well with anybody I know.These are all on dozers that have a general use in lots of different types of conditions.The only one that I know of that works in the exact same environment (landfill rubbish) has proved troublesome with breaking links.Cat have provided new parts but not provided the labour or tooling to repair them (apparently).Another rumour was one well imformed owner reackoned Cat had to supply him with a complete new u/c and not just mismatch links.In the end they supplied a complete new normal u/c and he met them on the labour side.These are just well imformed rumours and not facts.
I receantly saw a Komatsu D65 lgp with 7000 hrs on original system 1 u/c.It looked brand new to me at a brief glance and I have no reason to disbelieve what the operator told me.
As for D8K's on 9000 hrs on same genuine Cat u/c,That's great life.I do believe that these D8's are mainly going forward pulling 463's.I myself have tried Cat,Berco,ITM,DCR and have had mixed results on D8's working on mixed duties in mixed conditions and are not near the 9000 hr mark.On D5H,D6H LGP tractors I have done more detailed studies and concluded that Cat was giving me 20/30% better life but were costing more than that to purchase at the time......so what do we do???The figures didn't quite stack up in favour of Cat.Berco seemed just as good and were cheaper.ITM and DCR aren't as good and are initially cheaper to buy,but I still don't know what the hell to buy for my D5H LGP that spends it's time solely in a silica sand quarry shaping big batters up?????After 25 years of tracking dozers I still haven't a clue...........
P.S..I was told you can no longer get genuine Cat D8H/K u/c anymore.or Berco for that matter??
I receantly saw a Komatsu D65 lgp with 7000 hrs on original system 1 u/c.It looked brand new to me at a brief glance and I have no reason to disbelieve what the operator told me.
As for D8K's on 9000 hrs on same genuine Cat u/c,That's great life.I do believe that these D8's are mainly going forward pulling 463's.I myself have tried Cat,Berco,ITM,DCR and have had mixed results on D8's working on mixed duties in mixed conditions and are not near the 9000 hr mark.On D5H,D6H LGP tractors I have done more detailed studies and concluded that Cat was giving me 20/30% better life but were costing more than that to purchase at the time......so what do we do???The figures didn't quite stack up in favour of Cat.Berco seemed just as good and were cheaper.ITM and DCR aren't as good and are initially cheaper to buy,but I still don't know what the hell to buy for my D5H LGP that spends it's time solely in a silica sand quarry shaping big batters up?????After 25 years of tracking dozers I still haven't a clue...........
P.S..I was told you can no longer get genuine Cat D8H/K u/c anymore.or Berco for that matter??
ih100
Senior Member
They went with h/d as it was easier to part and refit if they'd lost a track, with S1 you need a dedicated press to separate the links. There was a bolted master link offered for S1 but I've only seen it on one machine. As I've said I'd have no qualms on anything 6N or smaller, but only on standard width shoes. The leverage from wide shoes kills S1 chains in short order.
System one is horrible. We had a D5K and got it new with double grousers for grading, the idler needs to be adjusted with shims to be higher than the rollers, this was never done when they swapped the grousers at the dealer. The thing bounced every time the idler hit a roller in the chain. Needless to say after a few months we got fed up and cat said we caused the problem. Our D6k with system one is not much better, it bounces, snaps, pops, shakes. I just got a D6k2 with SALT and it is SO much better.
Nige
Senior Member
Our latest-generation SALT chains with PPR are consistently giving us over 10k hours to scrap. We don't do pin & bush turns as we've found it's not worth it, so we run them to 125% wear first time round and call that it. The number of dry joints we've had you could count on less than one hand. Most if not all were on our first tractors and there was a Cat Service Program covering it. Lately I can't recall a single one.
Our next move it to try the new single tooth master links.
Our next move it to try the new single tooth master links.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . . . Nige
Could you elaborate on this mate . . . the first bolt together links I ever saw I think were Berco and they were solid with (as far as I remember) a big single tooth, then the Cat ones came through with a series of serrations rather than "teeth" and were much easier to separate . . . that would be about 1974 I reckon.
Cheers.
Could you elaborate on this mate . . . the first bolt together links I ever saw I think were Berco and they were solid with (as far as I remember) a big single tooth, then the Cat ones came through with a series of serrations rather than "teeth" and were much easier to separate . . . that would be about 1974 I reckon.
Cheers.
Yes my previous employer is currently doing an experiment to test the throw away theory we sent one set of PPR chains away at 8,000 hrs for an over haul and let the sister machiene keep going only threw a set of segments at her ( segments every 4,000 hrs ) I will b interested to c how far the overhauled ones go the cost was 4,000 per side to overhaul it's way to soon to tell but when the results are clear I will post. At a guess I reckon the one we are letting run to destruction might make 15,000 hrs the set we sent of early I can't c em going another 8,000 hrs but time will tell hey Nigel care to take a guess.
We keep our tracks out of slop,
I don't wana change the subject or hijack the thread but my old boss and I are also running another test myth 2 outher dozers one with the roller between the drive and the front idler u know the one on top and one without both d8t.
He reckons the one without will do 1,000 hrs more the theory is one less pivot point for the chains to roll over I've got a wager he is wrong I reckon the track slap will get the better of em and the one with the roller will come up trumps.
Time will tell care to take a guess at that one.
We keep our tracks out of slop,
I don't wana change the subject or hijack the thread but my old boss and I are also running another test myth 2 outher dozers one with the roller between the drive and the front idler u know the one on top and one without both d8t.
He reckons the one without will do 1,000 hrs more the theory is one less pivot point for the chains to roll over I've got a wager he is wrong I reckon the track slap will get the better of em and the one with the roller will come up trumps.
Time will tell care to take a guess at that one.
Hey scrub ime back buy the way just off the plane I'll start a thread to keep u informed I've been pulling with a d6 and 65 komatsu got some pictures for u.
Now this isn't what u asked and Nigel is obvisually more experienced in the matter but here is my 2 cents worth on master links.
The alligator dezine master link is by far the best and way better than the old master pin on the old school dry track chain dezine if u know a few trade secrets.
They are a married pair ( no mixing and matching ) the surfaces must b matched.
They also must b clean I clean them with a flap disk on a 4 inch grinder alwase split at the rear idler over a block of wood release the cannon first.
No come along or mini endless chain needed.
The bolts are a torque to yield bolt and must b replaced every time u split the track once again clean is king and i mean spotless and follow the specks to the letter from memory the last d8 I did was something like 700 nm plus 60 degrees plus another 60 degrese if u don't get this right disaster will follow.
The horror caused buy people not doin this properly is incredible believe me I've been there with a grinder flap disk grease and a straight edge trying to get them to marry up again simply because some moron threw em together dirty and reused the bolts dirt got between the link causing the them to come apart wear in a bad way and snapping bolts. Ive seen people use lock tight on bolts to try to stop this from happening and one bloke even welded the head of the bolt to the grouser ( I snoted that bloke in the mouth ) all because they can't work clean but ime only getting worked up now Nigel can explain the rest.
Now this isn't what u asked and Nigel is obvisually more experienced in the matter but here is my 2 cents worth on master links.
The alligator dezine master link is by far the best and way better than the old master pin on the old school dry track chain dezine if u know a few trade secrets.
They are a married pair ( no mixing and matching ) the surfaces must b matched.
They also must b clean I clean them with a flap disk on a 4 inch grinder alwase split at the rear idler over a block of wood release the cannon first.
No come along or mini endless chain needed.
The bolts are a torque to yield bolt and must b replaced every time u split the track once again clean is king and i mean spotless and follow the specks to the letter from memory the last d8 I did was something like 700 nm plus 60 degrees plus another 60 degrese if u don't get this right disaster will follow.
The horror caused buy people not doin this properly is incredible believe me I've been there with a grinder flap disk grease and a straight edge trying to get them to marry up again simply because some moron threw em together dirty and reused the bolts dirt got between the link causing the them to come apart wear in a bad way and snapping bolts. Ive seen people use lock tight on bolts to try to stop this from happening and one bloke even welded the head of the bolt to the grouser ( I snoted that bloke in the mouth ) all because they can't work clean but ime only getting worked up now Nigel can explain the rest.
Nige
Senior Member
Scrub,
Here's the new vs old master link. The new link requires a different master shoe with a bigger mud notch cutout in it because the links are beefier. The bolts have changed and so has the torque procedure. Like Cam says, there's no substitute for getting everything almost surgically clean and the tightening right on these links the first time or you will have them forever loosening.
Here's the new vs old master link. The new link requires a different master shoe with a bigger mud notch cutout in it because the links are beefier. The bolts have changed and so has the torque procedure. Like Cam says, there's no substitute for getting everything almost surgically clean and the tightening right on these links the first time or you will have them forever loosening.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . . Gotcha Cam85 and Nige . What I don't understand is the "new" single tooth link. As I mentioned both types were around in the early seventies.
I seem to remember the single tooth was larger with more angular engaging faces.
Good to see you back and waiting for those pictures Cam85
Cheers.
I seem to remember the single tooth was larger with more angular engaging faces.
Good to see you back and waiting for those pictures Cam85
Cheers.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . . Okay, I had a look around and this is more like what I remember.
http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4365848-1.png
The patent date on this one is 1982 but Cat. have patents on a single tooth link going back to 1961 so it seems the system was evolving.
Interesting stuff
Cheers.
http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US4365848-1.png
The patent date on this one is 1982 but Cat. have patents on a single tooth link going back to 1961 so it seems the system was evolving.
Interesting stuff
Cheers.
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Hey Nigel
Hey Nigel as a field man when I've got track problems I simply roll em of and send em away usually but I have been told that mobile track presses exist have u seen one ore used one.
I know it's a bit off topic but I would love to c one.
Was hoping a man of ur knolige and talent might have some old picks and st hand experience with them.
Regards Cameron
Hey Nigel as a field man when I've got track problems I simply roll em of and send em away usually but I have been told that mobile track presses exist have u seen one ore used one.
I know it's a bit off topic but I would love to c one.
Was hoping a man of ur knolige and talent might have some old picks and st hand experience with them.
Regards Cameron
Nige
Senior Member
Cam, we do the same as you, roll one set off and another set on. They then go to the stealer who pulls the shoes and fits regrousered or new shoes with new hardware and at the same time relubricates all the pins (this is a good way of telling if you have any dodgy seals) and he also goes into the master links if necessary. We don't touch tracks other than to roll them on and off.