ianjoub
Senior Member
I disagree. It is suppressing free speech. That is never good.
If you don't support someone's right to speak freely when you disagree with them, you do not support anyone's right to freely express themselves.
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
This will be an interesting thread moving forward......
- Thread starter Vetech63
- Start date
If you don't support someone's right to speak freely when you disagree with them, you do not support anyone's right to freely express themselves.
ianjoub
Senior Member
He managed to get here on time about 1/2 of his shifts, and loved to grace us with his opinion ON EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME!
I would argue in court that this^^^^ was a good reference. Now someone else gets to judge what is good and bad as far as describing someone else's tendencies?
Truck Shop
Senior Member
There went the neighborhood.
ianjoub
Senior Member
Sounds like he will be easy to get along with. I'd say help him when you can IF he asks. Otherwise, sit back and watch the show.
I don't think it's illegal to give a bad reference (at least here) it's just asking for trouble. We typically just go with the worked these dates, made this amount of money and is or is not available for re-hire.
Most places are so desperate for employees they do not even care if you say an employee is not eligible for re-hire. They would hire a demon if it filled a spot for a few weeks.
Most places are so desperate for employees they do not even care if you say an employee is not eligible for re-hire. They would hire a demon if it filled a spot for a few weeks.
HATCHEQUIP
Senior Member
There should be a law like no job or no business or no paying taxes NO F*CKING VOTE then all the political cocc succers would quit making it where they could survive because then they wouldnt be getting that vote [scratch that] buying that vote with our tax money
Acoals
Senior Member
There is a certain segment of employee's that are always alert for a way to be offended by the boss.
They almost always think they are far better than they actually are as well.
Maybe always, actually . . .
Welder Dave
Senior Member
A lot of so called fast guys think it's a race and are trying to impress someone. Sadly it's usually themself but the quality of the job suffers and often has be redone or fixed.
Some employee's are really terrible but so are some bosses and companies. Most employee's just want to make a decent living and have a little respect from their employer. People change jobs for various reason's. What does a company gain by giving a bad reference to someone who no longer works for them? It's not uncommon for employee's and employers to clash. Giving a bad reference because you clashed with an employee or just in spite benefits no one. I'm talking about average employee's who overall are good workers, not the best and not the worst. As an example, what if Vetech decided he had enough and left that company. Then later decided he'd rather just work as an employee for someone else. That employer calls the company Vetech worked at and they give him a bad reference because he left them scrambling to find another mechanic. It was their own fault he left but they are mad at him. Does Vetech deserve a bad reference because the company is mad at him for leaving? Consider an employee in a similar situation but had only worked for a company a year or 2. He decides to look for another job. Does he deserve a bad reference just because he chose to leave that company? I think that's one of the reasons they have privacy acts so employers can't just give a bad reference. It's not a stupid law at all. In the past good workers could have real trouble getting another job because of a personality conflict or a spiteful employer. Good employers wouldn't want to hold people back if there were better options for them but not all employers look at it the same way.
Some employee's are really terrible but so are some bosses and companies. Most employee's just want to make a decent living and have a little respect from their employer. People change jobs for various reason's. What does a company gain by giving a bad reference to someone who no longer works for them? It's not uncommon for employee's and employers to clash. Giving a bad reference because you clashed with an employee or just in spite benefits no one. I'm talking about average employee's who overall are good workers, not the best and not the worst. As an example, what if Vetech decided he had enough and left that company. Then later decided he'd rather just work as an employee for someone else. That employer calls the company Vetech worked at and they give him a bad reference because he left them scrambling to find another mechanic. It was their own fault he left but they are mad at him. Does Vetech deserve a bad reference because the company is mad at him for leaving? Consider an employee in a similar situation but had only worked for a company a year or 2. He decides to look for another job. Does he deserve a bad reference just because he chose to leave that company? I think that's one of the reasons they have privacy acts so employers can't just give a bad reference. It's not a stupid law at all. In the past good workers could have real trouble getting another job because of a personality conflict or a spiteful employer. Good employers wouldn't want to hold people back if there were better options for them but not all employers look at it the same way.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
In any employee/employer situation the possibility of personality clash is constant. There are
so many variables it's damn near impossible to list them all, especially this day and age with
all the political views--which we won't get into. I think a huge issue in the work place is all
the useless drama generated by personality clash created {sometimes} by social media.
*
A employer doesn't hire a employee to be a friend and employee doesn't hire on to be the
bosses friend. Not going to each others house for dinner either. Both need to keep the drama
in a box. As long as both understand their positions, and keep confrontational conversation
on the back burner things generally go well.
so many variables it's damn near impossible to list them all, especially this day and age with
all the political views--which we won't get into. I think a huge issue in the work place is all
the useless drama generated by personality clash created {sometimes} by social media.
*
A employer doesn't hire a employee to be a friend and employee doesn't hire on to be the
bosses friend. Not going to each others house for dinner either. Both need to keep the drama
in a box. As long as both understand their positions, and keep confrontational conversation
on the back burner things generally go well.
ianjoub
Senior Member
If I were to call a former employer for a reference on someone I was considering for hire I would take it all with a grain of salt if everything reported was the end of the world bad. When 'investigating' a potential hire, it is the same as any other investigation. one must weigh all the available information.
Once again I will say: Any restriction on free speech is bad. Here in the USA, our founding documents specifically deny that power to the government.
BluewaterLa
Well-Known Member
No keyboard quarterback here, just merely stated what I would have done with a company that can't get it together let alone seemingly work against you. I never referred to money as income or debts owed by another person. No need for panties to get wadded up over internet conversation.
Shimmy1
Senior Member
No wadding going on. Just pointing out why would he leave when they are funneling him mass quantities of cash?
If he was a W2 employee, absolutely. But, until the juice isn't worth the squeeze, carry on with the battle.
Just to clear the discussion on what can and cannot be disclosed when calling previous employers, federal law basically has the same requirements as non discriminatory rules. Federal regulation reads as follows:
Employment References
It is illegal for an employer to give a negative or false employment reference (or refuse to give a reference) because of a person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information.
Source: https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-emp...negative,), disability or genetic information.
Individual states have different requirements. Here is a site that not only lists the requirements for each state but also the state statutes.
www.nolo.com
Employment References
It is illegal for an employer to give a negative or false employment reference (or refuse to give a reference) because of a person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information.
Source: https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-emp...negative,), disability or genetic information.
Individual states have different requirements. Here is a site that not only lists the requirements for each state but also the state statutes.
State Laws on References and Statements By Former Employers
Many states regulate what an employer may say about a former employee—for example, when giving a reference to a prospective employer. Does your state make employer
www.nolo.com
digger doug
Senior Member
Libel & slander are not protected.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Not every employer takes references with a grain of salt. The privacy act protects the employer too. If the employer were to blurt out confidential info. on a former employee could get them in a lot of trouble. There was case years ago where an ex of an employee was stalking him. They called his former employer who blurted out where he went to work. Some employers would give negative reviews in an attempt to keep the person from getting a job. A reference letter or a signed release is more likely to get a positive reference. Just being able to call up any former employee could open a can of worms. There are many circumstances a former employer could give a negative reference that isn't deserved. In Vetech's case with such poor maintenance on machines, what if an employee was told to keep running a machine that clearly had an issue and the machine had a catastrophic failure. The foreman or boss reams the employee out blaming them for the failure. The employee quits over it and applies elsewhere. The new potential employer calls the former employer and they're still blaming the employee for something that wasn't his fault and give the most negative reference they can. Does the employ deserve to not get hired because of it? It's easy to say it's a stupid law if you've never been denied a job because of an employer with a grudge. Can't give a reference is 1 thing. Saying everything possible to prevent a former employee from getting another job is another thing. There can also be good reasons an ex employee doesn't want certain former employers to be called for a reference. An example could be the employee was accused of stealing something and is totally innocent. The former employer doesn't believe it so tells prospective employer's he's a thief. I've always preferred to show a prospective employer what I can do with a weld test or knowledge test. One welding supply had a 3 page test to see how much product knowledge I had. They put me in a room thinking it would take a while to complete. I said I can do it right in front of you. I was done in about 6 minutes and told them they didn't leave enough space to give the full answer on some questions. They said it usually takes people 20-25 minutes to complete. Then I discovered one of their salesmen was someone I knew. He barely knew the difference between Mig and flux-core. Never got the job but about 6 month's later they completely stopped selling welding supplies. It was really strange, their sales were tanking because their outside sales people and sales manager lacked knowledge but they had a 3 page knowledge test for counter sales people. It's like the guy Vetech referred to that used to be a mall manager. Doesn't have a clue about heavy equipment or fixing and maintaining it but somehow that's what he's in charge of.
Mike L
Senior Member
If I had a deal like that, I’d ride that sumbitch right into an early retirement.
Or get the thread shut downAnd I see
Another attempt to derail the thread, and another attempt will fail once again
Monkeywithawrench
Senior Member
I dont wanna talk to you no more you empty headed animal foot
trough water! I'll fart in your general direction!
Your mother was a
hamster and you father smelt of eldiberry!!!!
Is there someone else up there we can talk to?
NO! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
-Monty Python Holy Grail (French man at a Castle)
Just throwing that out there as a way to lighten the convo..........not directed AT ANYONE in particular.
I think we're getting way off topic.........BUT the subject of references is defenately elightening.
I have always been taught, when in the position of management; if you wouldn't hire the guy back.......that's what you say "Would not hire them back." Thats it. And explain WHY you can't elaborate.......because it's illegal........that was in Mass.
trough water! I'll fart in your general direction!
Your mother was a
hamster and you father smelt of eldiberry!!!!
Is there someone else up there we can talk to?
NO! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
-Monty Python Holy Grail (French man at a Castle)
Just throwing that out there as a way to lighten the convo..........not directed AT ANYONE in particular.
I think we're getting way off topic.........BUT the subject of references is defenately elightening.
I have always been taught, when in the position of management; if you wouldn't hire the guy back.......that's what you say "Would not hire them back." Thats it. And explain WHY you can't elaborate.......because it's illegal........that was in Mass.
Last edited:
ianjoub
Senior Member
And must be proved in a court of law as false statements to qualify.