Time to replace 287C undercarriage. Thoughts?

[Oxbow]

We have a 287C with MTL undercarriage. We have just shy of 1600 hours on the original, and it is time to start thinking about replacing it.

We do stream channel restoration and construction work and the 287C is used to shuttle materials (rock, root wads, etc.) to the excavators when conditions prohibit the use of a loader. Hence the poor skid steer encounters nasty deep mud when temperatures are below freezing. No matter how much time one spends cleaning tracks at night it is rare when all the bogeys roll the next morning, hence taking a bunch of time and effort to get everything moving the next morning. My only complaint with the OEM undercarriage is the use of the rubber lined bogeys and idlers, as we cannot use a weed burner to quickly warm the metal up and free everything as we do with excavator carrier rollers.

I have a quote from Bair products to replace all the bogeys, idlers, sprocket bushings and bolts, and tracks. The bogeys and idlers are made of smooth sided metal alloy and should make morning start up much easier and quicker. I believe that I will go this route but wanted input as to the quality of the Bair components, especially the tracks. Our original tracks have a few small cuts and rips, but are still very functional and the tread depth for 1600 hours is excellent. I am tempted to get the OEM tracks from Cat, but all the bogeys and idlers from Bair as Cat still doesn't have a non-rubber lined bogey.

Have any of you had good or bad experience with the Bair products?

Thanks

 

[Digdeep]

I talked to a guy who put the Bair rollers on his 277C up in Northern WI. The problem with the snow is that it adheres to the metal and wants to turn a 10" wheel into a 15" wheel real quick. Steel and snow seem to stick more than snow and rubber. He ultimately just kept the mid rollers as rubber and the idlers as steel. This seemed to be the best solution for him. I do know that CAT does sell front and rear steel idlers for the C series.

If your current tracks have 1600hrs and are still good I would stick with the OEM CAT tracks. You can do a search on this site and others and see that you ultimately get what you pay for.

 

[Oxbow]

Thanks Digdeep, I hadn't thought about snow build up on the bogey's and idlers. Cat does make some sort of cast metal idlers, but not bogeys. The Cat idlers have sort of ribs on the sides going toward the bolt holes that I thought might make it harder with frozen mud in them to get things turning.

I guess there is no perfect solution and we are using the little thing in ways that were never intended, but there really is no substitute. It rides so much nicer that the CTLs that I would hate to have to go that route, and now that it is paid for I REALLY do not want to upgrade.

 

[Digdeep]

Out of curiosity, what was Bair going to charge for all 48 wheels? I can't imagine that it would be cheap.

 

[MrKomatsu]

ps......check with brad with Quicktrax..........

 

[Oxbow]

I have 5 rows of bogeys so the total is 40 bogeys and 16 idlers for a total of $4632, then there are the new inner and outer sprocket sleeves, sprocket bolts, and of course tracks. I'll price the tracks from Cat because as you say, 1600 hours is probably going to be hard to achieve with aftermarket. I guess I should run these as long as I can, but it won't look to professional to break a track out in the middle of a stream, and unscheduled downtime could eat up the savings pretty quick.

I will check with Quicktrax as well.

 

[Oxbow]

ps......check with brad with Quicktrax..........

I am unable to find a web site for Quicktrax.

 

[still learn'n]

We went with bair products sprocket bushings and bogie wheels on our 297c and the bogie wheels are fine but the sprocket bushings did not last like I expected they have a steel inner bushing and a poly outer bushing on the sprockets and we were putting rock down in a boggy spot on a highway project and the poly bushings just dented in and eventually we were missing a bunch of poly bushings! We also went with the cat steel idlers and I am happy with them! We replaced the belts to and I called to all different aftermarket places and cat was right in there on price our product support guy from cat said they have adjusted their prices to compete with the aftermarket prices! Jerry

 

[Oxbow]

We went with bair products sprocket bushings and bogie wheels on our 297c and the bogie wheels are fine but the sprocket bushings did not last like I expected they have a steel inner bushing and a poly outer bushing on the sprockets and we were putting rock down in a boggy spot on a highway project and the poly bushings just dented in and eventually we were missing a bunch of poly bushings! We also went with the cat steel idlers and I am happy with them! We replaced the belts to and I called to all different aftermarket places and cat was right in there on price our product support guy from cat said they have adjusted their prices to compete with the aftermarket prices! Jerry

Thanks Jerry, I think I'll do the same regarding the tracks, sprocket bushings and belts, and idlers but use the Bair bogeys. I think even if cat is a bit more on tracks I know that we will get the best life out of them.

 

[KSSS]

I assume your around 10K total. Seems like a lot of money for the amount of hours on it. A CTL may not ride as nice but dam that's a lot of money for only 1600 hours.

 

[John C.]

From what I've seen in Washington State, 1,600 hours is absolutely great. Most are very lucky to get 1,000.

 

[Digdeep]

Oxbow...it's very likely you don't even need to replace your mid rollers. They don't need to look pretty. A pick of the undercarriage would be helpful.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

I would suggest Cat tracks, Bair Idlers, and leave the bogey rollers alone until there is nothing left of them. As mentioned above, they do not need to look pretty to work OK.

I have no experience with it, but read in another thread here on HEF about a problem with the inside of tracks getting chunked out when working in rock because of the steel or aluminum rollers, as there is no flex and the rock gets driven into the track farther, instead of having flex on both sides from the rubber wheels. Does anyone have direct experience of this?

I agree that 1600 hrs is near the top end of life expectancy. That tells me that you take very good care of the machine. I have gotten 1400 hrs out of Cat tracks, and 800 out of aftermarket, with my current set of aftermarket loosing drive lugs at about 400 hrs. This is on a 287. The current set has been hampered by tough conditions, rocks, 40%+ slopes, and just about every bad thing for tracks except deep continuous mud, so I can understand the less than adequate service.

 

[Oxbow]

I assume your around 10K total. Seems like a lot of money for the amount of hours on it. A CTL may not ride as nice but dam that's a lot of money for only 1600 hours.

It works out to about $5.65 per hour, but that would be higher than the average cost per hour because I don't believe I would have to change idlers and bogeys the next time.


regarding CTL use, I have run a new case that a client of ours owns, and the vibration and damage that that will eventually cause may end up just as expensive as MTL undercarriage, and where we shuttle materials a long way I should think about the poor guy running it.

 

[Oxbow]

Oxbow...it's very likely you don't even need to replace your mid rollers. They don't need to look pretty. A pick of the undercarriage would be helpful.

Yeah Digdeep, except that I need to be able to use a weed burner in order to get the bogeys un-frozen in the mornings. The existing bogeys tend to catch fire. Unless one has access to a fire hose, there is no way to clean them good enough at night to insure that they will roll in the morning after the previous days mud freezes.

 

[Oxbow]

I would suggest Cat tracks, Bair Idlers, and leave the bogey rollers alone until there is nothing left of them. As mentioned above, they do not need to look pretty to work OK.

I have no experience with it, but read in another thread here on HEF about a problem with the inside of tracks getting chunked out when working in rock because of the steel or aluminum rollers, as there is no flex and the rock gets driven into the track farther, instead of having flex on both sides from the rubber wheels. Does anyone have direct experience of this?

I agree that 1600 hrs is near the top end of life expectancy. That tells me that you take very good care of the machine. I have gotten 1400 hrs out of Cat tracks, and 800 out of aftermarket, with my current set of aftermarket loosing drive lugs at about 400 hrs. This is on a 287. The current set has been hampered by tough conditions, rocks, 40%+ slopes, and just about every bad thing for tracks except deep continuous mud, so I can understand the less than adequate service.

I can't help regarding the rock issue on metal idlers Jerry. We do avoid counter rotation and tight turns as much as possible, not only for track life but also for tearing up our work area.

I have decided to get the Bair bogeys, Cat metal idlers (same price as Bair), Cat sprocket parts and tracks (also competitevly priced).I will also purchase all new bolts from Cat for reassembly. I always used to shutter at the thought of buying Cat parts, but they are very reasonably priced relative to aftermarket, and at least you know what you have.

Yesterday we blew one of the track drive hoses (thank god we have a spill kit on site, it was next to a stream). It had rubbed through where it enters the body of the machine. I don't know how you all change these, but I found it easier to undo the track frame bolts on the end of the pivot shafts and just slide the track out far enough to get a wrench on the fitting. Between that and lifting the cab it wasn't too bad of a project.

Thanks for all the input gentleman!

Dave