Tips For A New Guy

[Turbo21835]

Hello all. I am currently laid off and am spending time at my unions training center. I have been around dirt work for 3 of my 5 years of operating equipment. Started out on scraper, and also checking grade on a finish crew. Then move to scraper operator on a bulk crew. Next came push cat operator. Spent 3 months with a D5C doing finish grading around houses and a couple of road projects. I have spent some time at the school with a dozer refreshing myself with grading. This week I was on a grader. Cat 140G to be exact. Some free handing, some with GPS.

The instructor has told me I have great potential to get a full time seat in a grader. He said if I am able to spend the winter with him there is no reason I shouldnt be able to go after things next spring if I can find a machine. That may be the hardest part of all this.

So heres what I'm looking for. What kind of things should I be practicing. I've been working on rough grading cut and fill areas. Ive been cutting flat bottom ditches. Using the material from the ditch to build a 50ft wide roadway. Ive also graded a "football field" and graded an area for drainage with GPS. What other things should I look at doing while I have the time. This week I'm looking at grading a street into a culdesac, Grading berms and slopes, Grading streets to curb lines. Ive seen some tricks done with a grader that I couldnt believe. Most of them done by Randy Kreig. Most impressive was pealing asphalt out of a 4 inch wide trench, done for an electrical contractor at an airport.

Josh

 

[Grader4me]

This week I was on a grader. Cat 140G to be exact. Some free handing, some with GPS.

So heres what I'm looking for. What kind of things should I be practicing. I've been working on rough grading cut and fill areas. Ive been cutting flat bottom ditches. Using the material from the ditch to build a 50ft wide roadway. Ive also graded a "football field" and graded an area for drainage with GPS. What other things should I look at doing while I have the time. This week I'm looking at grading a street into a culdesac, Grading berms and slopes, Grading streets to curb lines. Ive seen some tricks done with a grader that I couldnt believe.

First, welcome to the forum! So, if I'm reading this correctly you did all of this in one week?

 

[Turbo21835]

Did this in a total of four days. I will be a little more specific with the things I did. Day 1. First day on the machine. Spent first half of the day making and moving windrows. Learning how to maintain an even window over a long distance. Also just getting the feeling of the machine. This wasnt my first time in a grader, but it was the first time with any real instruction. Day 2. Rained out of the grader. Spent the day in an excavator digging. Day 3. Started the ditches and road. 300x50 road. Two ft wide flat on the centerline of the street with a 2 percent fall to the shoulders. Two 300ft long ditches. Both with a 2ft flat bottom. 1 to 4 back slope and 1 to 3 front slope. Cut the ditches and roughed in the street. Day 4 Finish grade the subgrade of the street. Fine tuned the ditches. Then the instructor hopped in a scraper and brought me sand for the street as a subbase simulation. Spread the sand across the entire street to 4 inches thick. Fine graded for "asphalt" Day 5 Set up GPS poles and receivers. Since we did the street in the football field we restored the area. Scraper moving material and me respreading things to a rough grade using GPS. Did not fine tune things on the field. I will probably spend Monday and some time on Tuesday on the football field. Cross grading things to a ready to seed state. Then I went to another area aprox 1000x600. Things were roughed in by a dozer. I then roughed the area in with gps. Day 5 was getting things roughed in as fast as possible. Mainly for drainage reasons. We had a good bit of rain headed in.

Josh

 

[Grader4me]

Sounds like you have a good training area. After reading your first post I was surprised that you was able to work with all of those different applications in such a short period of time, if that was your first time on a grader. Thanks for being more specific.

My experience on a grader has been with road maintenance. This consists of grading, fine grading, leveling gravel, leveling asphalt, ditching etc. There are other grader operators on here that have worked with GPS and other tasks as well.

As said it sounds like you have a good area in which to practice working at different tasks, so listen well to your instructor and learn. There are many tips that we could give you, but it would depend on what you are doing. You are lucky though, as it sounds like you have a good instructor. A lot of us old farts had to learn by trial & error so to speak.

 

[Cam7775]

Take your time.....

I know thats the hardest thing to do.take your time be patient.

I have the hardest time training people when they get to a certain level where they understand all the controls but want to go faster like the old pro.

try to see what you want to do before you start.....I find most people learning try to do finish grade right away.....I have working in the mining application as well as finish grading and road maintanence. "your ass in the seat will tell your hands what to do" best quote I have ever heard. be patient.

hope it all works out for you.

 

[Turbo21835]

Thanks for the words of wisdom guys. The ass definitely tells me where i need to do something. A lot of time I feel and see something that needs to be addressed but I have a hard time making it happen. Its always been the same for me on a dozer. I can see and feel it, but Im not sure on how to make things happen. Usually its only a quarter to half inch correction that needs to be made. I know time will change that. Thanks again guys.

Josh

 

[Grader4me]

"your ass in the seat will tell your hands what to do" best quote I have ever heard. be patient.

Hope that applies well for you caus...Your new grader ain't gonna have a sterrin wheel!! Sorry...couldn't resist...and yes I am jealous

 

[Turbo21835]

I havent been around long, but Ive already figure things out. Grader4me always seems to be doing this :stirthepot

On a side note, we did have have one of the cat 14M test machines at the training center for two days. There doesnt seem to be much interest from the guys in graders. Until the M showed up. I got about 15 minutes in it. All I can say is WOW. Everything is so responsive compared to the old style.

 

[Grader4me]

I havent been around long, but Ive already figure things out. Grader4me always seems to be doing this :stirthepot

Perfect! I'm glad someone finally noticed

 

[Cam7775]

Oh boy

can't wait until my shiny new M shows up...........I don't put my ass on the wheel grader4me but I will be think of all the turns you will be making with that wheel of yours

 

[Grader4me]

Lol..Right on! Seriously, good luck with your new grader and keep us informed on how you make out with it

 

[Turbo21835]

Ditch Work

I have been working on ditches this week. Today found me in a muddy ditch with a 90 degree turn in a short radius. I can only work one side of this ditch. So have my tandems crabbed onto the high side. When I get into the turn is when I run into my problem. I seem to get pulled into the bank on the other side. For some reason I cant make the turn. I have about 2-3 inches of material in the bottom and on the slope. What can I do to make the turn. Im not trying to take all the material out in one shot, trying to take 1/4 to 1/2 inch of material out. Ive tried a few different ways and I just cant seem to make this turn. Any words of wisdom?

Josh

 

[Grader4me]

I have been working on ditches this week. Today found me in a muddy ditch with a 90 degree turn in a short radius. I can only work one side of this ditch. So have my tandems crabbed onto the high side. When I get into the turn is when I run into my problem. I seem to get pulled into the bank on the other side. For some reason I cant make the turn. I have about 2-3 inches of material in the bottom and on the slope. What can I do to make the turn. Im not trying to take all the material out in one shot, trying to take 1/4 to 1/2 inch of material out. Ive tried a few different ways and I just cant seem to make this turn. Any words of wisdom?

Josh

Hey Josh...Sounds like you're having fun! Seems to me that you have two things against you here. First is the muddy ditch as your steering and traction is going to be reduced. Top that with a 90 degree turn

So I take it that you are working your foreslope. I don't know how you have your moldboard positioned so lets talk about this first. Have your moldboard tilted all the way back so that your material will roll off your blade. Make sure that the toe of your moldboard is positioned flush with the outside of your front tire, not beyond. You can crap your grader to the high side as you say, but have the front wheel in the ditch line leaned toward the high side. Use the toe of the blade, lifting up the heel a couple of feet and cut your ditch line (3 or 4 inches) The next pass put your front tire in this ditch line with your blade positioned flush with the outside of the front tire then start making your cuts(light) bringing the material to the road. Try this and see how you make out.

 

[Randy Krieg]

Never Give Up

One of my tricks in a similar situation to what you are describing is to turn the moldboard around backward. Remember there are teeth 360 degrees on that circle and they don’t put those teeth on there for looks. They’re on there to be used. If your not really use to the machine you’ll most likely tear things (tires, steps) up getting it turned around. The other extremely important thing to watch for on the machines equipped with slope control; the cable routing for the rotation encoder/sensor. If the cable isn’t routed properly (most aren’t) it will tear the cable in half when the moldboard is at about 90 degrees (parallel with the mainframe) rotation. I can turn the moldboard around on my 14H(equipped with a 16 ft moldboard) in about 45 seconds. It is a requirement to graduate from one of my motor grader training classes. My students have to be able to spin the moldboard around using the proper technique without touching the tires. It’s really not that hard if your shown the proper way.

Now on to the operation. One of the problems as Grader4me clearly stated; traction. Your trying to move the material out of the ditch and the material is trying to move you (and your grader) down in the ditch. So turn the situation around so the machine has the advantage and better steering control. 70% of the machine weight is on the rear tandems so make that the leading end/steering end (assuming your on an articulated machine). Remember articulation is designed on a Caterpillar motor grader to be used as a “Working Tool†not just a maneuvering tool.

If you insist on doing things the old way just be sure you understand how and when to use the "differential lock". They don't like to turn when the dif is locked, but sometimes you gotta keep it locked just to keep moving.

There is more involved here, but I have to get to work. I have a 14H torn apart and need to get it put back together and ready to go to Prudoe Bay for the winter.

By the way, who the heck is Randy Krieg?:beatsme

Regards, Randy

 

[digger242j]

By the way, who the heck is Randy Krieg?

I don't have a clue, but from his profile, and his first post, he seems like a guy that might know a thing or two.

I'd like to welcome him to the HEF.

 

[Grader4me]

Randy, welcome to the forum! I"m sure the members will benefit from your knowledge and experience. I will look forward to your posts.

 

[JimBruce42]

I'd like to second... er I guess third the welcome to the boards Randy. Your experience and knowledge I am certain will be most valuable:usa :notworthy Whoever the heck you are:beatsme :drinkup

 

[Turbo21835]

Randy Kreig is a grader god from the great white north. He is also a high detail scale model builder. He made a real nice cat front shovel. I also remember a nice 988G that was in progress. Ive seen some pictures of some amazing feets done by Randy. I like the one of the right front tire defying gravity while it levitates in the air over the edge of a bank. I also like the ones of him rolling asphalt out of a 4 inch wide trench at an air force base. He knows how to perform many tricks with a grader :notworthy .

Randy, Can give you some details about your class at IUOE302. What kind of tasks do you teach. Im currently going to IUOE324 training center and training on my own. We havent had enough people to do a scheduled grader class. I have just about built all of our GPS projects and Im looking for things to practice/learn by going back to "old school"

Grader4me, Your tips helped out a lot when it came to working that ditch line. Im going to have to try Randys tips also. Thanks for all the help guys.

Josh

 

[Grader4me]

By the way, who the heck is Randy Krieg?

Randy Kreig is a grader god from the great white north

Wow! The mystery is solved.

Grader4me, Your tips helped out a lot when it came to working that ditch line

Happy to have been a help.

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF Randy Krieg! :drinkup