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Track Speed Issues - Kobelco

dirthog

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
393
Location
central pa
Occupation
heavy equipment mechanic
swivel joint

There are only 5 gaskets (or slipper seals) and 3 o-rings in the swivel joint it is just a chromed cyl not a big deal to replace as long as the chrome is not scored up but I will tell you that we have had to rebuild very few of them the just don't seem to have many problems and we have hundreds of Kobelco's out at our dealer
 

wgwestervelt

Active Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Massachusetts
dirthog your advice much appreciated. this machine only has 6000 hours on it so I am thinking I am going to go with the odds here and button this thing back up and save the joint rebuild for last resort.

The lines have all been replaced in the past around the speed controls and one is much looser than the other so I think I will switch them and see what happens. You never know.

Thanks
 

Digger145

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
59
Location
Australia

Iron Horse

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
761
Location
,
When I was messing with the track issue noticed that the handle/pedal arrangement in the cab had a lot more side to side play on the problem side vs. the other side. To me, this did not look like it had anything to do with the actuation of those valves (front and back movement) but I am not an expert on how that valve box is built.

Even side to side movement of the controls can be the cause of your problem . A worn bush causing the movement can cause the bell crank to skew sideways a little creating lost travel in the other plane .

Also a tight track can cause it to be slower than the other .
 

wgwestervelt

Active Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Massachusetts
Thanks for this advice. Will be my angle of attack this weekend. Stay tuned.

I have now switched the control hydraulics and the same track stays slow so the problem is not in the control valves. Also checked the tension on the tracks - no issue.

I checked the motor before - nothing comes out the drain line, so no blow by.

To me this leaves only the swing joint. Is there any other possibility? I am out of ideas other than the joint.
 

Chris5500

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
217
Location
Australia
Occupation
Plant Mechanic
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgwestervelt
Thanks for this advice. Will be my angle of attack this weekend. Stay tuned.

I have now switched the control hydraulics and the same track stays slow so the problem is not in the control valves. Also checked the tension on the tracks - no issue.

I checked the motor before - nothing comes out the drain line, so no blow by.

To me this leaves only the swing joint. Is there any other possibility? I am out of ideas other than the joint.

So you swapped the service lines at the control valves with no change?

Try swapping the service lines at the travel motors, if the fault jumps from the right hand to the left hand travel motor it is the rotary joint, if it remains on the right hand side it is the motor.
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
before you go too far once you get the machine back together and operational there is one simple check you can do and it might cost a total of $7.00 in o-rings X 2 kits.
i have sped read the topic discussions, with track issues the questions would be;
1 - does the machine track straight, or off to one side, and if so which side (referencing sprockets at the rear)
2 - when lifting the track off the ground is it slow in forward direction or reverse or both
3 - when tracks off the ground does the slow direction load down the engine?
4 - does the problem get worse as the hyd oil warms up?
i suspect that the 3 o-rings located in the one end plate of your hyd pumps regulator block have gone hard and hyd oil is leaking past the one o-ring which holds the hyd pump swash from that one hyd pump rotating group to not destroke as far as it should.
the check is quick and simple,
open the pump door, staring at you on the outside pump "p2" that regulator end plate has two adjustments (which should not be adjusted), the one that sits untop a stacked nut affair has a small square screw held by a 13mm nut.
scribe marking the orientation of the nut, sqaure, etc...
loosen this nut allowing the square adj screw to turn with it.
view inside the open hole and it should be dry, if oil drips out the o-rings require replacing.
if unsure you can start and operate the machine to allow hyd oil to warm up, no oil should exit past.
the hyd pump regulator on the pump closest to the engine is a mirrored version and the end plate faces the muffler.
this one sees more heat and is likely the one leaking
ph: 905-888-9070
ask for Adam.
you do both regulators.
at this point call me i'll explain as easier over the phone.
 

MR. KOBELCO

Resigned
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
433
Location
CANADA
Occupation
PARTS & SERVICE MGR. AMOUNG OTHER HATS @ KOBELCO D
most older kawasaki hyd pumps have this issue come up when the o-rings harden usually occurs every 5000-6000 hours or so.
the new kawasaki pumps used in todays machines eliminated this problem for the piston and adjust screw are machined as a one single piece now.
 

wgwestervelt

Active Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Massachusetts
answers...

Mr K - First, I have thrown up my hands on this one and have hired a local witch doctor to come have a look for 60 bucks an hour. He comes highly recommended so I will see what happens on 12/15 when he comes.

In the meantime to answer your questions things run well just one track is slower and weaker than the other in both high and low speeds and forward and reverse. The main gear on the track seems fine - no grinding, jerking,etc.
I do believe it gets worse when the oil warms up......

As I noted early, there is nothing that comes out of the drain line on the motor ( which the witch doctor thought strange over the phone).

So here is the stupid question - is the hydaulic pump you are talking about the main one attached to the end of the engine? I will have a look and see if I can find the components you are referencing. For 7 bucks its worth one more shot before the witch doctor.

Thanks - Bill
 

wgwestervelt

Active Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Massachusetts
most older kawasaki hyd pumps have this issue come up when the o-rings harden usually occurs every 5000-6000 hours or so.
the new kawasaki pumps used in todays machines eliminated this problem for the piston and adjust screw are machined as a one single piece now.

OIL COMES OUT THE FRONT SCREW IN COPIOUS AMOUNTS.

Back one seems to seize up when its about 2/3 out but all the threads on the back are dry.

SImple job to replace these O rings?

Happen to know the kobelco part No. for the kit?

Thanks - Bill
 

wgwestervelt

Active Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
30
Location
Massachusetts
Progress

Mr. Kobelco - Thanks for the help on the phone. Changed out the o rings on the front unit. Still need to inspect the back unit. O rings were certainly toast - dried and not working properly.

Machine now seems to do OK in Reverse - still a difference in speed in forward.

I ordered the exact rings from kobelco and when they show up I will change out the back as well. This looks like a PITA as its under the muffler and not easily accessable. However now that I know the routine (thanks to two phone calls) should be no sweat.

Will see how the machine operates afterward.

Going to use the machine for the day tomorrow and see what observations can be drawn.
 
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