Volvo EC210BLC 2002 one track slow

[Operator_Volvo]

Hi, I have a problem with my Volvo EC210BLC 2002 left track is slower than the right. But if I tilt the right joystick the speed becomes good again. Does anyone have any advice? Thanks

 

[Hffhvg]

Hi, I have a problem with my Volvo EC210BLC 2002 left track is slower than the right. But if I tilt the right joystick the speed becomes good again. Does anyone have any advice? Thanks

I would say you have a pump issue.

I am not completely sure of how hydraulics work on an excavator but here is my understanding:

The pump that runs your left track is wearing out. The one that runs your right is still in good condition. This causes common weak track problems-excavator not tracking straight (that is if the final drives are nit the issue).
But when you engage another digging function like you activating the joystick the logic of the hydraulic circuit switches to only one pump running the tracks (both left and right) and the other starts supplying the oil flow to the hoe attachment, making some sort of equilibrium of the oil flow so all functions run decently even when tracking.

To isolate this problem to the pumps I would try to find if any other function is stalling, like boom, dipper arm, bucket and slewing. If the problem is indeed the pump there should be another weak function.
The other and most effective way is switching the pumps outputs, but I would save that for last.
If there is no other weak function I would then start by checking the travel motors case drains.

 

[funwithfuel]

When you pull the function on the right stick, you are merging flows which equalizer pressure and flow from both pumps into a common feed.
Let's back up and look at things. Is your track sag set correctly? Are your tracks seized up? In other words, do you have frozen pins? Are you in sand, gravel, myd or dirt. This goes back to track sag. What do your sprockets and rollers look like? Any seized? What about the main idler? Is the axle pushing through the wheel, or is the bearing still good?
With the basic inspection out of the way, get you a clean bucket. Spin down your case drain filter. It's the big fat one in the pump room. Pour the contents out into the bucket. You're looking for golden glitter. We hope not to find any. If no glitter, spin it back up or a new one, whichever. Measure your cycle times. Full throttle. Write down all your results. Measure each 3x with the oil at operating temperature. Boom up, boom down, arm in, arm out, and finally bucket curl, bucket dump. It's a PITA, I know, but it helps avoid spending ridiculous money on unneeded parts and costs you nothing but time and fuel so far. Good luck.

 

[Hffhvg]

When you pull the function on the right stick, you are merging flows which equalizer pressure and flow from both pumps into a common feed.
Let's back up and look at things. Is your track sag set correctly? Are your tracks seized up? In other words, do you have frozen pins? Are you in sand, gravel, myd or dirt. This goes back to track sag. What do your sprockets and rollers look like? Any seized? What about the main idler? Is the axle pushing through the wheel, or is the bearing still good?
With the basic inspection out of the way, get you a clean bucket. Spin down your case drain filter. It's the big fat one in the pump room. Pour the contents out into the bucket. You're looking for golden glitter. We hope not to find any. If no glitter, spin it back up or a new one, whichever. Measure your cycle times. Full throttle. Write down all your results. Measure each 3x with the oil at operating temperature. Boom up, boom down, arm in, arm out, and finally bucket curl, bucket dump. It's a PITA, I know, but it helps avoid spending ridiculous money on unneeded parts and costs you nothing but time and fuel so far. Good luck.

I agree with you to start isolating this problem at undercarriage. The upper you go the things get more complicated. To me it just seems this is a hydraulic problem nit mechanical. Activating the digging function making an excavator tracking straight I would personally start examining at the pump and then to the bottom. It sounds cliche to blame the pump for some weak function but in this case thats where I would start.

 

[TVA]

Everyone just so quick to blame pumps!!! That’s how things get very expensive, very quick, and most of the times for nothing.

Funwithfuel is the best guy when it comes to Volvos.
My suggestion - get your undercarriage checked out. Rollers and track tension.

If that one checks out - actually measure the pressure differential on stalled motors, and if pressure on bad side is low a start with “center pivot” or “rotary manifold”. Just start measuring pressure with track motor connected , then plugged hoses at the motor, and measure pressure, then move out to the upper structure and plug hoses right before rotational manifold, and measure pressure then. See if there is the difference. If you see pressure increase only after you disconnected the motor and plugged the hoses - your problem is the motor.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[TVA]

And do your cycle time tests - like Funwithfuel says.

 

[Hffhvg]

Everyone just so quick to blame pumps!!! That’s how things get very expensive, very quick, and most of the times for nothing.

Funwithfuel is the best guy when it comes to Volvos.
My suggestion - get your undercarriage checked out. Rollers and track tension.

If that one checks out - actually measure the pressure differential on stalled motors, and if pressure on bad side is low a start with “center pivot” or “rotary manifold”. Just start measuring pressure with track motor connected , then plugged hoses at the motor, and measure pressure, then move out to the upper structure and plug hoses right before rotational manifold, and measure pressure then. See if there is the difference. If you see pressure increase only after you disconnected the motor and plugged the hoses - your problem is the motor.
Just my 2 cents.

I am not disagreeing with @funwithfuel !

Getting an undercarriage checked out is basically a daily check.
THAT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT SOMETHING SOMEONE SHOULD DO BEFORE EVEN MAKING ANY KIND OF QUESTION ABOUT HEAVY EQUIPMENT.

And for your two cents worth of opinion:
The poster of this thread stated that activating a digging function is making an excavator track straight which is otherwise not. Please tell me how that correlates to “rollers and track tension”.
I never said that someone should straight away tear down the pump. But since time is also money why not just flip the pump outputs. Literally takes five minutes and see if the other track gets weak or any other function. Also this approach is mentioned in most of the heavy equipment workshops manuals. I don’t know why someone would start inspecting a problem like that bellow the rotary manifold. Maybe some mobile mechanic that likes to put his hours up with some oblivious poor soul owner?

Maybe check and try and follow this procedure @TVA :
See how checking the mechanical properties of an undercarriage is at the top since it’s a daily check and inspecting the travel motor is at the bottom?

I am not saying things like you and @funwithfuel said should be missed out. I was just also trying to state out procedures someone without experience might miss out but would save a lot of time with the right approach from the start.

 

[TVA]

I am not disagreeing with @funwithfuel !

Getting an undercarriage checked out is basically a daily check.
THAT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT SOMETHING SOMEONE SHOULD DO BEFORE EVEN MAKING ANY KIND OF QUESTION ABOUT HEAVY EQUIPMENT.

And for your two cents worth of opinion:
The poster of this thread stated that activating a digging function is making an excavator track straight which is otherwise not. Please tell me how that correlates to “rollers and track tension”.
I never said that someone should straight away tear down the pump. But since time is also money why not just flip the pump outputs. Literally takes five minutes and see if the other track gets weak or any other function. Also this approach is mentioned in most of the heavy equipment workshops manuals. I don’t know why someone would start inspecting a problem like that bellow the rotary manifold. Maybe some mobile mechanic that likes to put his hours up with some oblivious poor soul owner?

Maybe check and try and follow this procedure @TVA :
See how checking the mechanical properties of an undercarriage is at the top since it’s a daily check and inspecting the travel motor is at the bottom?
View attachment 330470
I am not saying things like you and @funwithfuel said should be missed out. I was just also trying to state out procedures someone without experience might miss out but would save a lot of time with the right approach from the start.

Do you know how is different confluences set up inside that control valve? I do not know exactly. I have pretty good idea how it is done in Kobelco, JD/Hitachi, I know that CAT ones set up little different.
Heck - I don’t even know at this point what kind of displacement control set up on those pumps - NFC or PFC!
I only saw that those pumps in Volvos are overwhelmingly Kawasaki K3Vs.
Thats where and when Funwithfuel expertise comes in, because he dealt with Volvos extensively.
Last time I’ve dealt wit Hyundai/Doosan was about 5 years ago, and I’m not sure Volvo still retains similar topology in the DCV.

And no - you didn’t say anything about any procedures, when I called you out - you just jumped straight to the pump blaming!

You came up with all of that just now!

And another thing: flow charts are very good way to dupe you in to wasting your time and money for nothing!
I’ve learned that a hard way, whole lot of people here will tell you the same.
I use flow charts every time, but not as “set in stone” rule, but as “general guidance”, and double check it all the time.
The best thing is to have hydraulic diagram, use your brain and start testing, before jumpy to conclusions.

I’ve seen many times when main pumps on the excavators were rebuilt or replaced, because it was “bogging the engine down” which is dumbest thing in the world. Just to keep having the same problems with the new pumps, because problem wasn’t in the pump in the first place.

You don’t check travel with both pumps in confluence, because it’s combines the flows of both pumps, and more flow can compensate for let’s say one of the motors bypassing ( lower volumetric efficiency), and even out the speed on both tracks ( pass of least resistance).
You check them in the “straight travel”, when each pump is responsible for each track.

At this point we don’t even know if the slow track is slow both directions, or only one, maybe port relief is at fault, or spools pilot land is scratched up, bypassing the oil, and not shifting spool fully.

Are you sure anyone doing undercarriage inspections daily?!?! With most of my customers - it’s a huge “HECK NO”!!! They don’t check crap, until something falls off!
There’s whole lot more procedures need to be done, before calling it $8000-$10000 pumps

And how do you proceed to checking pumps volumetric efficiency? Do you k know the procedure on that, have you done it?! I did, last time I did it was on NFC pumps. Does OP have equipment for that? Or should he wait for appointment with dealer, or should he call in mobile service?
Do you know what it takes to set up the equipment?
You probably don’t, because you wouldn’t come up with “time argument”

It might even come to that, as “final confirmation” of suspected pumps being bad, is case drain or tank checking for debris will be inconclusive.

 

[funwithfuel]

Ok, let's back the happy truck up. Neither approach is wrong. That said, I don't try to spend a guys money any harder than I would spend my own. Let's consider the level of knowledge and experience that we are dealing with on the day to day. OP, I'm not picking on you, I'm just making a point here. Most "operators" are lever pullers. It's rare enough that they know the correct posture for checking their hydraulic oil let alone lifting the hood to check fluids.
I treat every guy as though every dime was hard earned and harder to part with. I will point out the commonly overlooked or ignored things before jumping at big dollar high skill items. How many guys even know they have a case drain filter let alone what it's purpose is. I have my method and you have yours. As a dealer tech, I'm not everybody's friend. I get that. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna tell someone, "I changed this $8 or 10k pump, but now you need undercarriage because the problem remains. Some folks we chat with are in countries where everything has to be shipped in Australia, Nigeria, Ireland etc. We have members everywhere and I don't want anyone saying " that American jag-off gave me bad info and sent me on a wild goose chase."
I respect both opinions and don't dissuade anyone from following solid info, I just choose economy over expediency.

 

[funwithfuel]

Let's just chill til OP gets back to us

 

[TVA]

I think first thing we need to find out, whether it’s slow both directions, or only one.

And checking case drain filter would be great. But it’ll tell us that something failed, wouldn’t say what exactly.

It might be even hub bearing on the motor, which is not “hydraulic” per se.

 

[Hffhvg]

Do you know how is different confluences set up inside that control valve? I do not know exactly. I have pretty good idea how it is done in Kobelco, JD/Hitachi, I know that CAT ones set up little different.
Heck - I don’t even know at this point what kind of displacement control set up on those pumps - NFC or PFC!
I only saw that those pumps in Volvos are overwhelmingly Kawasaki K3Vs.
Thats where and when Funwithfuel expertise comes in, because he dealt with Volvos extensively.
Last time I’ve dealt wit Hyundai/Doosan was about 5 years ago, and I’m not sure Volvo still retains similar topology in the DCV.

And no - you didn’t say anything about any procedures, when I called you out - you just jumped straight to the pump blaming!

You came up with all of that just now!

And another thing: flow charts are very good way to dupe you in to wasting your time and money for nothing!
I’ve learned that a hard way, whole lot of people here will tell you the same.
I use flow charts every time, but not as “set in stone” rule, but as “general guidance”, and double check it all the time.
The best thing is to have hydraulic diagram, use your brain and start testing, before jumpy to conclusions.

I’ve seen many times when main pumps on the excavators were rebuilt or replaced, because it was “bogging the engine down” which is dumbest thing in the world. Just to keep having the same problems with the new pumps, because problem wasn’t in the pump in the first place.

You don’t check travel with both pumps in confluence, because it’s combines the flows of both pumps, and more flow can compensate for let’s say one of the motors bypassing ( lower volumetric efficiency), and even out the speed on both tracks ( pass of least resistance).
You check them in the “straight travel”, when each pump is responsible for each track.

At this point we don’t even know if the slow track is slow both directions, or only one, maybe port relief is at fault, or spools pilot land is scratched up, bypassing the oil, and not shifting spool fully.

Are you sure anyone doing undercarriage inspections daily?!?! With most of my customers - it’s a huge “HECK NO”!!! They don’t check crap, until something falls off!
There’s whole lot more procedures need to be done, before calling it $8000-$10000 pumps

Dude I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. In the first reply I said that the pump might be the problem, but I damn well explained where I was coming from. Even @funwithfuel gave me an upvote on it.
Switching the pump output would guide someone in the right direction with zero money and minimal time. I was just trying to give a free advice that I would be glad someone would give me.
No one even replied to this thread and the poster is probably struggling to make things work on a machine. At least I got @funwithfuel and maybe some other expert engaged in this to make things right, as far as for me they can discuss it further privately.
As for you @TVA you just picked up the scraps that funwithfuel mentioned. Then came and gave me the high ground.

 

[TVA]

And i think we shouldn’t forget such a pesky thing as plugged strainer on the travel pilot valve - that one can make us chase own tail, and bite us in the “arse”.

 

[funwithfuel]

Guys, we need to chill, we are not doing any good bickering. We are gonna get banned for shenanigans and the thread will be closed.
Say it with me .....Goosefrabah.

 

[TVA]

Guys, we need to chill, we are not doing any good bickering. We are gonna get banned for shenanigans and the thread will be closed.
Say it with me .....Goosefrabah.

I’m done.

 

[TVA]

Is there any separate pressure sensor on travel control circuits, that “report” to the controller?

Are those pumps PFC controlled with pressure sensors on discharge ports?

 

[funwithfuel]

Is there any separate pressure sensor on travel control circuits, that “report” to the controller?

Are those pumps PFC controlled with pressure sensors on discharge ports?

No, unfortunately on the B she's negative control, very limited monitoring. Only oil temp and pump controllers based on engine load vs pressure sensors. Very early, very simple.

 

[TVA]

NFC hose, plus the strainer on whatever it called at the end of the DCV gallery should be checked ( man I’m getting old).
If it’s plugged - it may not drop NFC pressure and stroke up the pump like it should.
It should be easy enough to check and clean. 1/4 NFC hose is not a big deal to replace. I would start there.
Free running track test, and case drain filter - a must.
Just my 2 cents