which tier?

[ddigger]

I am having a hard time determining which tier engine is in my 1995 Cat 330L Excavator, sieral # 5YM 01004. Is there a referance quide somewhere where a guy can check, for my or other machines as well? Thanks in advance. It seems as if big brother is about affect a job I`m looking at.
Good ol California.

 

[dayexco]

call pelosi's office, she'll take care of it for you!

 

[ddigger]

Boy Howdy! I think she already has!

 

[bono1979]

ur 330 has a 3306 which is before tier 1

 

[td25c]

I need further explanation of this tier system.It just sounds like another way to control everyone.

 

[ddigger]

Bono you are correct about the 3306, and thats what I am finding. In all of my paperwork and manuals I can find no rating on the engine, other than the 3306 and
horse power which is 222. I suspect this was before the tier ratings as you stated.
I just want to find some data to see my options on this project. Thanks for your input.

 

[DarrylMueller]

From all I have heard and read if it's made after 2002 its a tier 2. If you have a '95 I think it's a tier 0. You now have the same problem as most of the private owned equipment owners. I have talked to the main builders of particulate filters and at this time they MAY be able to add a PM filter to tier 2 and up grade to a tier 3. Then there is the sticker shock and service problems that go along with the PM filter.

 

[John C.]

The Tier rating started in 1996 as a phase in regulation. Engines with horsepower I think of 175 to 300 had to meet specified emission standards. As I recall the next year covered engine from 75 or so to 175 and the next year the little ones got covered. Larger horsepower engines got covered also in that time frame.

Tier 2 started around 2001 or 2002. I forget which but also went through the phase in by horsepower. Tier 3 started a year or two ago again with the phase in.

Engines manufactured within the Tier system have to have tags on them showing the year of of Tier system they are covered by. Engines that don't have the tags may be certified under the Tier system but a new tag will have to be installed.

I have seen engines in machines that came into the country through the gray market that did not have tags. I have found out the EPA is very serious about those things and dealers caught bringing in machines with engine that don't have the tags will be fined and made to install the proper tags. If the engines are not certified they will be required to take the machines back out of the country.

I haven't been watching this too close lately but heard that none Tiered engines can no longer be sold in California. Is this true?

 

[joispoi]

How hard would it be to retrofit a dpf off of a late model light truck? Ford, Chevy and Dodge all have DPFs on their 2008 and up trucks.

There are a lot of performance guys that have figured out how to make their trucks run without them. My guess is that it´s not much more work to reverse engineer the process and add a dpf to an older machine.

If the entire process costs more than $5,000 I´d be surprised. What you get charged is another story:cool2

 

[John C.]

What is a DPF?

 

[tootalltimmy]

I found this info on another web site.

Diesel Particulate filters (DPF) or 'traps' do just that, they catch bits of soot in the exhaust.

As with any filter (think of the bag in your vacuum cleaner) they have to be emptied regularly to maintain performance. For a DPF this process is called 'regeneration' – the accumulated soot is burnt off at high temperature to leave only a tiny ash residue. Regeneration may be either passive or active.

Passive regeneration
Passive regeneration takes place automatically on motorway-type runs when the exhaust temperature is high. Many cars don't get this sort of use though so manufacturers have to design-in 'active' regeneration where the engine management computer (ECU) takes control of the process.

Active regeneration
When the soot loading in the filter reaches a set limit (about 45%) the ECU can make small adjustments to the fuel injection timing to increase the exhaust temperature and initiate regeneration. If the journey's a bit stop/start the regeneration may not complete and the warning light will illuminate to show that the DPF is partially blocked.

It should be possible to start a complete regeneration and clear the warning light simply by driving for 10 minutes or so at speeds greater than 40mph.

If you ignore the light and keep driving in a relatively slow, stop/start pattern soot loading will continue to build up until around 75% when you can expect to see other dashboard warning lights illuminate too. At this point driving at speed alone will not be sufficient and the car will have to go to a dealer for regeneration.

DPF additives
The most common type of DPF features an integrated oxidising catalytic converter and is located very close to the engine where exhaust gases will still be relatively hot so that passive regeneration is possible.

There's not always space close to the engine though so some manufacturers use a different type of DPF which relies on a fuel additive to lower the ignition temperature of the soot particles so that the DPF can be located further from the engine.

The additive is stored in a separate tank and is automatically mixed with the fuel whenever you fill up. Tiny quantities are required though so a litre of additive should treat around 2800 litres of fuel, enough to cover 25,000 miles at 40mpg.

With this type of DPF regeneration will be initiated by the ECU every 300 miles or so depending on vehicle use and will take 5 to 10 minutes to complete. You shouldn't notice anything other than perhaps a puff of white smoke from the exhaust when the process is completed.

 

[DarrylMueller]

Selective Catalytic Reduction Technology. Uses the DEF Diesel Emission Fluid. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=10319&page=5
A retrofit is like my wife she thinks it's like a days work to remodel our kitchen.
What you read and how it works is two different things than what is sold to the equipment owner. The landfill over the hill did a 627 and added PM and it has to go in and get plug in to AC electric every 8 hrs. Plus it an other maintance item. The real problem is if you have a computer hooked to the hydraulic and the engine you are out of luck, so far. And if you have like D6 9U you are out of luck to. Hope this will change. But I wish it was easy thing. Then again this is not a real do or die thing, it's more things run amock

 

[DarrylMueller]

The PM filter will colg to fast.

How hard would it be to retrofit a dpf off of a late model light truck? Ford, Chevy and Dodge all have DPFs on their 2008 and up trucks.
There are a lot of performance guys that have figured out how to make their trucks run without them. My guess is that it´s not much more work to reverse engineer the process and add a dpf to an older machine.

No you can't just add a PM filter to any diesel engine. It has to be in the right Tier group. At this time it may work with tier 2. But that not 100%. If you have a 0 or 1 Tier, the filter will clog to fast, and would have to be cleaned to often or just clog, is what I was told to me by HUSS a major PM filter supplier in Feb at world of concrete in Vegas.
Here in California the engine dealer I work with had a lot of guys signed up for retrofits and then something went wrong with some part of the certification that changed at the last minute, and they stopped and had to regroup. This is still changing and I wish it would die as a bad idea!

 

[joispoi]

The DPF´s on light duty diesels are self cleaning. When they start to get clogged, they automatically go into cleaning mode. This process burns more fuel, though.

If the EPA requirements include Urea injection, then splicing in a Ford, Chevy or Dodge DPF won´t work. If the requirement is strictly a measurement of emissions particulate....?

 

[DarrylMueller]

Yes, Calif has a baned Tier 0

John answer to the question. Our ship is sinking fast here. This is probably in the works in the rest of the states. Just do one at a time until all states are controlled. Nothing like teling you what you can buy use or sell.

Number 390 February 2009
BAN ON ADDITION OF TIER 0 VEHICLElS FOR OWNERS OF IN-USE OFF-ROAD
DIESEL VEHICLES
EFFECTIVE 3/01/09
The Air Resources Board (ARB) has a new regulation for In-Use Off-Road Diesel
Vehicles, which became effective under California law on June 15, 2008. This
regulation is designed to reduce harmful emissions from diesel powered construction
and mining vehicles operating in California. Among other things, fleet owners are
subject to retrofit or accelerated replacement/repower requirements, as well as reporting
requirements and restrictions on unnecessary idling. In addition, this regulation
imposes a ban on the addition of the oldest, dirtiest vehicles, called Tier 0 vehicles, to
fleets operating in California.
This ban on adding vehicles with Tier 0 engines is effective and enforceable as of
March 1, 2009. Fleets are still allowed to operate Tier 0 vehicles they already own;
they just may not purchase additional Tier 0 vehicles for use in California.
Tier 0 engines include the following:
· Model year (MY) 1998 and earlier engines with 25 to 49 maximum horsepower
(hp);
· MY 1997 and earlier engines with 50 to 99 maximum hp;
· MY 1996 and earlier engines with 100 to 174 maximum hp;
· MY 1995 and earlier engines with 175 to 750 maximum hp;
· MY 1999 and earlier engines with greater than 750 maximum hp.
This requirement is specified in title 13, California Code of Regulations as follows:
§2449(d)(7) Adding Vehicles
(A) Beginning March 1, 2009 - Beginning March 1, 2009 a fleet may not add a vehicle
with a Tier 0 engine to its fleet.
Non-Compliance: Health and Safety Code, Section 39674 (a) authorizes civil penalties
for the violation of the programs for the regulation of toxic air contaminants not to
exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) for each day in which the violation occurs.
Health and Safety Code, Section 39674 (b) authorizes civil penalties for the violation of
the programs for the regulation of toxic air contaminants not to exceed ten thousand
dollars ($10,000) for each day in which the violation occurs.
Off-Road Implementation Section
To: Owners of Off-road Diesel
Vehicles in California
2
As a matter of policy, fleets found to have illegally added Tier 0 vehicles will be
assessed a minimum civil penalty of $50 per engine horsepower. For example, a fleet
that illegally added a 150 horsepower vehicle would be assessed a $7,500 fine. The
standard for assessing penalties is one of strict liability.
For further information about the In-Use Off-Road Diesel Vehicle regulation, please visit
our website at: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordiesel/ordiesel.htm. Fact sheets,
advisories, and guidance documents are available at
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordiesel/knowcenter.htm, and the full text of the
regulation is available at http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2007/ordiesl07/frooal.pdf
For questions regarding enforcement of the In-Use Off-Road Vehicle regulation, please
contact Mr. Tajinder Gill at (626) 459-4304 or [email protected].
If you have questions about the regulation, please contact Ms. Kim Heroy-Rogalski
(916-327-2200 or [email protected]) or Ms. Elizabeth Yura (916-323-2397 or
[email protected]).
Hope this is a wake up call!

 

[AtlasRob]

I dont want to start a ruck and I fully understand where you are coming from but it says it is a ban on adding to fleets.

Is there any info on proposed total bans or are they planning on natural wastage/disposal to totally eliminate the older engines.

 

[Nuggethunting]

Hey Guys,

Don't want to highjack this thread, but have a question (along with trying to get my three post so I can start a new thread) about replacing CAT teeth. I have a CAT 345bl and a quick disconnect bucket. I can't seem to find a serial number or information needed to replace the teeth. When I went down to CAT here in Arizona they needed information off the bucket for replacement teeth.

The Trackhoe is a 2001 CAT345BL. Looks like the information place with a serial number is take off, or might have been ripped off from digging.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rob

 

[John C.]

I believe that all none tier engines will be ruled out of use by 2014. From where I am at, that equates to most construction equipment built before 1996 or 1997 depending on the horsepower of the engine.

Government agencies are already starting to limit the use of non tier engines on construction projects by requireing only a certain percentage of time they can be operated.

Right now most people in the dealer or manufacturing industry are hoping that means more equipment sales. In my view though it means all the small companies will be out of business because there are no banks that will loan that kind of money.

Let's see now, the banking industry is broke because of greed and corruption and environmental zealots have infitrated government and shut down most development of any kind. All we need now is a pandemic and we have the triple witching hour. Anyone looking forward to swine flue.

 

[DownInDallas]

You can look at the EPA family code on the engine plate. The family code is a 12-character item like "8DZXL06.1063" (and note the period which - when present - counts as a character). That example is from a list I have for a 2008 Volvo L90F.

The first character in the sequence is the year model of the engine. That's important because I've run across more than one case (in all manufacturers) where the model year of a machine does not match the model year of the engine inside it. Usually if you accurately determine the model year of the engine you will know the tier.

If that is a 1995 the family code should start with an "S". Engines without family codes are considered Tier 0.

I work for a Volvo dealer and I help our customers file on emission reduction grants in Texas so I follow this stuff to some extent. Based on the info you provided I think it's a Tier 0 machine, but I'd verify it with your dealer, especially if the government is involved.

Hope this helps.

 

[ddigger]

Thanks for the replys and opinions and helpfull info. Yes my machine is in fact a tier O. However I was contacted by my CAT dealer last week, and was told that they will register my machine with CARB and obtain a sticker for my engine and bring it to the jobsite for me for 45 bucks. This will allow me as a small contractor to continue to use my machine untill 2015.