Would you buy an International VT365?

[ENGINE902]

I'm in the market for a used work truck - looking primarily at a Class 5 , 19.5k GVWR gas engine, which put me in a F550 Ford or 5500 Ram. I routinely see early 2000s Class 6 trucks like the International 4200 for sale, often at a lower cost than an equivalent F550/5500. I don't want a 2008 or newer diesel due to emissions, but I'm not sure about the early 2000 medium duty diesels. The Class 6 trucks would give me another couple tons of payload which would be good to have on different jobs.

Freightliners of this vintage seem to have the Mercedes engines which I think I want to stay away from. Most of what read about the CAT 3126 (or maybe a C7) is generally positive, but other than routine maintenance, I think these would need to go to shop, which would be a significant negative on my cost structure. There are some 5.9 24V Cummins in the Fords, but Ford also used International 7.3s, VT365s, and CATs, so I don't run across that many say F650s with a 5.9. The DT466e's are in the heavier spec 4300s.

So that leaves probably a 4200 with a VT365 as my only practical option. I read that you can access the International diagnostic software for free, so I should be able to do some basic troubleshooting and wrenching myself. From what I read, these don't have the same head issues as the Ford 6.0 due to lower output specs. Still has the EGR/Oil Cooler issues, but I could even budget getting these upgraded/replaced if it was one and done. So that leaves the HEUI injection. Not sure what to think to be honest. I know the Ford/International 7.3 is well-regarded, but from what I read, owners are always chasing something on the injection system. If it is your personal truck and maybe you enjoy working on it, that's not a problem. But I need something reasonably reliable. I get a better perspective on the HEUI systems from the CATs which are used more as work trucks, not personal. Many owners seem satisfied with multi- 100k miles on their trucks. I think the technology was the same, not sure if the CAT HEUI systems were that different from what was used by International?

There seem to be quite a few of the 4200/VT365s still out there. Probably because International was still the king of medium duty then before losing out to Freightliner. Speaking of Freightliner, I could also likely get into a Class 6 M2 106 with a Cummins 6.7, but these would have DPF at a minimum and then DEF. Seem decent, but more to go wrong, and these would have to go shop for troubleshooting and repairs. Now I'm getting pretty far from a 19.5k GVWR gas job in terms of maintenance and repair, but that's just my gut feeling.

So is the VT365 worth considering in an International 4200? or maybe there is a Class 6 option I'm missing?

 

[Mike L]

Personally i would avoid the 6.0 at all cost. There is a reason that you can find plenty of them for sale. What kind of work are you doing with this truck?

 

[renovator]

Personally, I would run from the VT365. An outfit I worked for lost two of those in the same truck in 3 years. Both times the EGR was the root cause. Maybe it was a perfect storm of driver, mechanic, and poor design. When it was running, it would out pull the Freightliners with cats, but I wouldn't have one.

 

[Coaldust]

I certainly would not have a VT365 in anything you depend upon to generate income with. Look at a mini Kenworth like a T270 or a T300 with a PX7 or PX9.

 

[ENGINE902]

Personally i would avoid the 6.0 at all cost. There is a reason that you can find plenty of them for sale. What kind of work are you doing with this truck?

Pulling an equipment trailer with CTL or Mini-Ex and hauling material when needed (in or out). I'm a small solo operator, most of the projects I work on needing materials are in the single axle range. Problem is that getting single axle loads delivered is tough. All of the wholesale suppliers run tandems or better and don't want to deliver less than full loads. There are some S/A operators out there, but just a few and not reliable enough.

I've got a Class B CDL, but I'm not sure I want to drive a 30k+ GVWR truck around full time. Sweet spot for me is probably Class 6, 6-7 tons capacity. Two trips gets me 12-14 tons if needed. More than that I can have delivered. I figured I could live with a F550 at 4-5 tons, two trips gets me 8-10, and I could get a gas job.

I could likely get into a Cummins 5.9 or 6.7. Older Ford F700/800 or early 2000s F650 with the 5.9. Issue with the 5.9s is that F700/800s are getting old and finding something in decent condition is tough. Not all that many 24Vs in the F650, a lot of CATs and IH 7.3/6.0s.

Freightliner with a 6.7 when they stopped using Mercedes are out there. Not sure about getting into DPF and DEF though. I've come across some small KWs with the PX-7, but very few. Other options are the 3126/C7 CAT and then a DT466e. Not that many DT466e's since those were mostly in Class 7, Class 6 is primarily VT365s. 3126 CATs seem to get decent reviews, but at least conventional wisdom is the CATs are expensive to repair?

Like everybody I guess, looking for something reliable and maintenance/repair cost structure on the low end.

 

[cfherrman]

Haven't been driving the 6.0 for nearly 20 years now and currently sitting in one and operating it daily with making money and probably have the best idea about them on this forum.

95% of the problems with a 6.0 is actually from mechanics and the aftermarket and it's actually a really good reliable engine. The engine is making a huge comeback as now it is cheap and basically no emissions and easy to repair considering the new engines.

Not considering this ain't a pickup and this is a medium duty you have much better options in a medium duties such as all the international engines and possibly Cummins.

If the engine hasn't been idled forever in a day, which they all have, and those medium duties and good mechanics and looking after it they are a good purchase.

For example if it has the tall oil filter cap I probably wouldn't buy it unless it's extremely cheap because that cap put in there by mechanics cuz they think wix filters are good causes a loss of oil of filtration and no starts and then people wonder why they have to bring it back to mechanic over and over again. Loss of oil filtration causes the cam to be wiped out. Running more than 5000 miles an oil change can cause problems like that too.

Ford also is cheaping out on the replacement parts so you have to be vigilant with a forums to see what brands to buy.

The 6.0 engine also benefits a ton from the automatic transmission that Ford paired with it which you won't have.

If you go look at it sends me some pictures and some data like engine hours and miles and any maintenance history I'll let you know if it's a goodbye or not. These engines are super reliable don't let anybody tell you anything different.

 

[MG84]

Pulling an equipment trailer with CTL or Mini-Ex and hauling material when needed (in or out). I'm a small solo operator, most of the projects I work on needing materials are in the single axle range. Problem is that getting single axle loads delivered is tough. All of the wholesale suppliers run tandems or better and don't want to deliver less than full loads. There are some S/A operators out there, but just a few and not reliable enough.

I've got a Class B CDL, but I'm not sure I want to drive a 30k+ GVWR truck around full time. Sweet spot for me is probably Class 6, 6-7 tons capacity. Two trips gets me 12-14 tons if needed. More than that I can have delivered. I figured I could live with a F550 at 4-5 tons, two trips gets me 8-10, and I could get a gas job.

I could likely get into a Cummins 5.9 or 6.7. Older Ford F700/800 or early 2000s F650 with the 5.9. Issue with the 5.9s is that F700/800s are getting old and finding something in decent condition is tough. Not all that many 24Vs in the F650, a lot of CATs and IH 7.3/6.0s.

Freightliner with a 6.7 when they stopped using Mercedes are out there. Not sure about getting into DPF and DEF though. I've come across some small KWs with the PX-7, but very few. Other options are the 3126/C7 CAT and then a DT466e. Not that many DT466e's since those were mostly in Class 7, Class 6 is primarily VT365s. 3126 CATs seem to get decent reviews, but at least conventional wisdom is the CATs are expensive to repair?

Like everybody I guess, looking for something reliable and maintenance/repair cost structure on the low end.

There were tons of Dt466e put in class 6 trucks. I've got a 2000 IH 4700 (Class 6 25,500gvwr) and my father has a '98 4700 (also 25,5000gvwr), both have DT466e's. Parts are still easy to get, the International dealer has had everything I've needed.

That said, if you have a class B CDL, go ahead and get a 33K gvwr truck. They are physically no bigger than a class 6 and you're hauling 8-9tons per load vs 6 tons. For that matter, a class 6-7 single axle with a 158" wb and 10' bed is smaller and more maneuverable than the average 450-550 crew cab that a lot of guys run. Either way get one with air brakes, not only do they stop a lot better but the parts are more universal and easy to get. The only other thing to consider is if you are going to tow more than 10K with any of the aforementioned trucks you'll have to step up to a class A CDL.

 

[Steve Frazier]

A buddy of mine had one set up as a dump with the 365. I borrowed it once when my truck was down and I was pretty impressed! Hauled a full load of item 4 up a long steep hill very respectfully. He didn't have any trouble with that truck the entire time he had it while the 530 was constantly in the shop and finally bought back as a lemon.

 

[cfherrman]

Irc the 530 isn't like the 360 and 466

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

I had one for a little while and cleaned the EGR more than a few times as thats a problem area. I know more people who had issues with those engines than not. Seems they have a bad enough reputation in all forms.