• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Your opinions on buying an end dump.

roysbigtoys

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
45
Location
Spring Hill ,Ks
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
I am considering buying an end dump. I am thinking along the lines of a 24'-26' barrel bed. Are these good lengths? I plan on using it for rock/dirt and demo hauling. I also am wanting to know your opinions on framed, frameless?, or 1/4 framed? What brands do you guys like/dislike? Thanks for your help.
 

dozerman400

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
136
Location
schaumburg, il
Occupation
Heavy equipment operator
1/4 frames are heavier, but safer when dumping on soft ground or slopes (more tires on the ground when dumping).

Around Chicago you see a lot of 20' to 24' end dumps for hauling dirt, concrete and gravel, around 40' end dumps/barn doors for light demo.

I like the 22' mongoose frame less trailers. One thing about the frame trailers if your stuck your stuck, the frame less trailers you got a chance of inch worming your way out.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
I have a full frame end dump, for what I use it for, it works great, I'd like to have a barrel style end dump as well, to determine what frame you need, you first have to know what conditions your dumping on, if your off road and not perfectly level or on pavement and never leave it. I run everywhere with mine, dump anywhere, and never worry about it, when stuck off road, we hook on anywhere and pull it, from the back, front of the truck, also use the dozer to shove us out off the back of the trailer, anything imaginable we do it. I like my full frame end dumps, the only way I'd buy anything less is to run a lot lighter and keep it for on road only, never leave the level hard surfaced roads and always dump on good ground, which has its merit at time, I could haul gravel and sand with a lot lighter end dump for those purposes and get by.

I've been looking for another end dump, several in fact, one being a barrel style, with full frame under it for lighter demo work I do, mine now was used in mining to haul shot rock to the crusher, its built like a tank, and also a frame less or quarter frame for hauling gravel and sand with.

As for brands, they really don't mean much to me, it more in how they were taken care of and used, than the brands, they all run basic axles and go by the condition of them more than anything else and never buy an aluminum end dump for demo use.

There are makers who use hardox for the construction and others that use mild steel, for a barrel style, I'd go for hardox myself, much tougher stuff and takes the abuse more, especially if your going to dump concrete chunks into it often, but those bring far more money than regular steel.

The other thing you need to keep in mind is if it has a single point suspension under it or not, meaning all the wheels stay on the ground when dumping it, if your off road, this is a major plus, with a lot of frame less end dumps that don't have this option, only the back wheels will be on the ground when dumping, so if your heavy and in wet conditions, when you dump, your stuck and what dozerman was talking about inching your way out, with most quarter frames, all the tires are on the ground I think even if it doesn't have single point suspension, but I could be wrong on that, maybe someone else will chime in and correct me. With a full frame, all the tires stay on the ground all the time.

If your doing much over 24 foot hauling demo, I'd think hard on a triple axle setup myself, especially with a 26 or 28 footer, air lift pusher axle would be great, have seen a few with just fixed axle for a third too and that works, anything to help bridge the load you haul, more times than not your going to be overweight with demo anyhow.

Your area might also require you to have a tarp on the load for demo, you might want to check on that too before buying, I've never used a tarp before, its not required in my area at all, we just can't have junk falling off the trailer is the only requirement here.
 

roysbigtoys

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
45
Location
Spring Hill ,Ks
Occupation
Excavating Contractor
Thanks Dozerman and Randy for your input.

Near me is a 2000 CPS 26' barrel bed end dump with 1/4 frame that I am thinking of buying. Looks to be in pretty good shape. Anything in particular that I should look closely for when buying and end dump?

Randy, is the only way of telling what kind of steel the bed is made of by contacting CPS? I also hear what you are saying about a third axle, but on a 1/4 frame it looks like it would be a challenge to mount it.

Thanks again.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Most third axles are added to full frame end dumps, as for the kind of steel, you can contact the manufacturer as to what it is, most times if its hardox, it will be labeled somewhere, otherwise I'd figure it as not being hardox.

As to what to look for, see if the cylinder leaks any oil and if so, how much, check under the frame and barrel for cracks and welding done or need doing, check for holes in the barrel and how beat up the tail gate is. Look over the brakes and drums to see how worn they are and to see if its been tipped over, if possible hook it to a truck and cycle the bed up and down, and watch as someone does it, if its sprung walk away from it, and look for another one, once sprung they are a pain to deal with, they won't go up and down right, hang up and tilt as they go up causing issues of wanting to tip over again when fully loaded. Check the box pivot points in back for wear and slack, along with the quarter frame points and also look to see if it trails straight, meaning it doesn't dog walk behind the truck. Basically look it over and figure out how much use and care or neglect its had, if it been tipped or really worn out, its not worth buying, the repairs are more than you'll pay for it in the first place and it still won't make it anymore valuable than you paid for it, most places will use it, abuse and dump it before major repairs need doing, just a few things to look out for, finding any descent demo trailer is hard to find, most are beyond repair or almost new and new priced.

A quarter frame trailer will be by nature a lot lighter to start with verses a full frame trailer, I've been told but never run one personally that they are more stable when dumping verses a frame less trailer, which should be right according to the design of them, and all the wheels should stay on the ground as it dumps too, check it out though when you have the trailer raised and lowered. I wouldn't buy any trailer I couldn't see raised and lowered at least once, but that's me.
 

johndeere123

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Messages
176
Location
Nova Scotia
Also be sure to check that the gate closes tight against the box all the way around, and that the locks clamp the gate shut properly. If its a ¼ frame, be sure to check that the top of the box is straight and isn't bowed out. I have seen a couple of boxes bow out from people trying to dump with all the brakes locked up.
 

still learn'n

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
455
Location
Kansas
We have a 26 ft cps end dump with 54 inch sides and it is 1/4 frame and we like it we had a 28ft with 42 inch sides and it was hard when hauling dirt to get enuf weight on front of trailer and also when hauln demo like as in trees and building demo could not get as much in it as the 26 ft! We have a 30 ft armour lite at factory to pickup it has 54 inch sides with angled front so as to get more weight on front and also to be able to haul more demo material! We also have frameless and frame aluminums and I would have to disagree with randy on the stability of the frame types at least the 28 ft travis aerolite that we have that is frame type is just as tipsy as the frameless and just as tipsy as the 1/4 frame or more and yes our 1/4 frame cps half rounds all the tires stay on the ground with a center point pivot on the axles! One thing we have had problems with on our cps trailers is the seam on the bed above the axles seems to crack and I don't know why but cps puts a extra piece on the other seams that I have seen but not on the one above the axles but maybe this is also an option idk. Just my 2 bits Jerry
 

Brandt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
197
Location
Wyoming
Good thread!
I'm looking at getting one to pull behind my dump truck with a tandem dolly. I was thinking 38'-40' in order to bridge 108K. I will be hauling dirt/gravel/sand and dumping on uneven surfaces. Looks like I should find a full frame - alum box trailer. Any problem with this plan??
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Still learn'n, your absolutely right, an air bag suspension makes a full frame more tipsy than one with spring suspension, mine has springs just for that reason, there is virtually no give on the suspension at all, I guess I forgot to mention that in my post, thanks for pointing it out.
 

Colorado Digger

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,169
Location
Carbondale,co
Good thread!
I'm looking at getting one to pull behind my dump truck with a tandem dolly. I was thinking 38'-40' in order to bridge 108K. I will be hauling dirt/gravel/sand and dumping on uneven surfaces. Looks like I should find a full frame - alum box trailer. Any problem with this plan??


I don't know if that is even legal up there, length or weight. Hauling a 40' dump trailer behind a dump truck sounds sketchy to me. I don't the rules but 15 tons on the dumptruck and 23 on the trailer makes for 38 tons of material. Not to mention of your own guys are loading... it will be much heavier. I would not want to be driving that set up.

Just my opinion, CD
 

Brandt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
197
Location
Wyoming
Yes, it is legal. WY can go up to a 60' trailer w/o permits/escorts. MT will only allow me to go w/ a 53' trailer. I figure 40' of trailer and 13'-14' of tongue will be OK. The more stretched out I am the more weight I can bridge. Fuel trucks run around here all the time with this set up. Except they have a tag on the truck and can go 112K - 115K depending on their axle spacing. I don't have room on my dump truck to put a tag axle because I have a belly blade. The blade is more useful than another axle.

WY can go 117K on the interstate and 149K on secondary roads (as long as you can bridge it). I think MT is the same on secondary but you can go 118K on the I-state. I pull Rocky Mtn doubles now but only go 117K because we load in WY and deliver in MT.

Whatever I can bridge, I surely won't be setting any land speed records!!

I know you can run heavy in CO on the secondary roads but 80K is the limit on the interstate. Never made sense to me - I would think that it would be the other way around. Running 105K thru a town would tear up the roads more w/ all the stopping, starting and turning. Plus the safety factor of trying to stop 105K for the next light and snarling traffic when you try to get it moving again. Must have been a Kalifornia transplant that thought of that law !?!
 
Last edited:

johndeere123

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Messages
176
Location
Nova Scotia
Where are you going to be hauling in and out of that has room to turn a vehicle that long? A 40' end dump behind a tractor is long enough for most construction sites.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Brandt, how long is the box on your truck and are you including the empty weight of the truck and trailer in your equation or is that the gross weight of the material only?
 

Brandt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
197
Location
Wyoming
It is a 12' or 13' box, usually good for 12-14 yds or 30K of payload. Empty weight is around 25.5K. I don't know the empty weight of an end dump, guessing a dolly is 1500. Say an end dump is 15K and and my current truck with the dolly is 27K. I should be able to bridge 108K w/o a tag axle. That gives me 55K +/- of payload. I realize that I can fit that into a shorter box, but the shorter I am the less I can bridge. Once I put a trailer on the back of my dump truck I won't be able to gross 56K on the "tractor" as I am too short (my steer axle is too close to my drives). Going from memory but I think I will only be able to go 51K on the front and the remaining ( 57K) on the trailer. I bet if I could find a 3 axle trailer I could make it close to 117K.
The max I can go in WY is 117K GROSS.
The only gig I have lined up so far is picking up at a crush plant and moving it to an area to stock pile it. Turn around room is not an issue as most are running a tractor, 40' lead trailer, 15' of tongue or so and a 20'-24' pup trailer. I will be short by comparison. (still won't be able to back up though).
 

gwhammy

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
606
Location
missouri
If a person had a 16 to 20 foot frame enddump do you think you could spread rock with them on good level roads? I'd like to stay with just a road tractor to pull a lowboy and short end dump. I do some rock hauling and dirt and rough concrete. I've thought about building a short end dump with a 16 or so bed on some 17.5 lowboy axles I have. Set it low and have a offset neck to the road tractor like a dropdeck. Anyone done something like this. Maybe this sounds dumb but I'm a one man operation and try to hold overhead to a minimum. Right now I'm pulling a triple axle pintle behind the dump truck.
 

clintm

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
974
Location
charlotte nc
Occupation
trucking,concrete recycling,grading, demolition
gwhammy there is a few low profile end dumps in my area with the step deck floor I think they are Globe brand trailers but they look kinda heavy. the first thing you need to do when looking for any truck or trailer is know your local weigth laws (bridge laws and axle spacing and lengths). as far as the stability between a frame type and frameless in my experience (FOR THE SAME LENGTH TRAILER) If you look at the hinge point on a frame type it's about 4.5' from ground and on a frameless with center point suspension it's the center point about 1.75' from ground with most all of the frameless built after about 2000 both axles stay on ground almost to the top except may be the last 6" or 8"as long as you are not backing up a hill. there fore for the same length trailer a frameless is like dumping a shorter trailer and is more stable.but the frameless will tend to spend the load out a little longer instead of piling the load as high because of the hinge point I have three half round AR steel trailers a travis,clement,ranco the ranco is the best quality then the travis but they do not build steel trailers anymore and I think DRAGON now builts ranco's all mine are 32' cannot gross 80,000pds on the interstate but can on secondary rd's but more length add's more weight and harder to get around town and job sites. watch out for cracks in AR steel it does not bend (dent) very far it will start spider cracking and is almost impossible to stop
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
You can spread rock with a full frame end dump, I have a full frame and can verify that personally.

As for building one, opt instead to buy one ready to go, an older one in descent shape isn't going to be that much for dollars to buy, even if you'd have to do some repairs on it, you'd still be far cheaper than building one, unless you already had everything you needed to do it. As for going that short, I wouldn't, there comes a point when its too short and you can't scale much, not to mention the shorter they are the harder they are to back anywhere. I'd never go shorter than a 22 footer myself.

Shop the auction circuit on rbauction or purplewave or ironplanet or some of the others, compare sales prices and go from there.
 

Brandt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
197
Location
Wyoming
If you were closer gwhammy, I'd like to talk you into a trade. I'd like your 17.5 lowboy axles for my slider box and tandem axle assembly.
 

roddyo

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
788
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
Manipulator of the Planet
Lots of 22 foot dumps in Arkansas. We can run them everywhere but federal interstates.
 
Top