2 trees to a load?

[AusDave]

Attacking so called "greenies/environmentalists" not a smart move

I read somewhere that the lower 48 has more forest now than when the Pilgrims landed. The east coast from Virginia north has so much forest that you can't see nothing for the trees.

JJK, there is a lot of woods in New Jersey, especially over on the west side around Stewartsville along the river. I don't know about parks, but I saw more deer there in the fall of 87 than a lot of other places I've been. I don't know if you can walk around in the woods near Stewartsville Dam and the impoundment. It's very nice there excepting for the bugs and humidity. Can't swim or fish the lake though, too much asbestos in the water, at least last I knew.

Hi guys.
At the risk of creating a few flames I'd just like to comment on the attitude of blaming greenies and other people who like to protect the natural environment for the problems of owners/operators and other people involved in the heavy equipment and allied industries.
I've been reading these forums for a while and thought that this attitude might be just a bit of a joke, but it seems to be a bit too serious for this.

I'm not picking on Surfer Joe's quote above, just noting that it contains comments that may or may not be true, but is being used to justify a point of view regardless of its veracity. This seems to happen fairly often in the forum just to stick it to the greenies etc who also strangely appear to be skiers as well. (In Australia "greenies" tend to be against expanding ski resort development).

Having stood up publicly for the environment for most of my life, I've found that most anti greenie/environmentalist comment is based on ignorance. Often an issue that is made out to be a "greenie" issue may have some other political or corporate subtext behind it which is easily disguised by subtle PR massaging to make sure any anger is directed at greenies. Also there are some so called greenies who are as ignorant as the most one eyed redneck, who really do the environmental cause as much damage as a D11 running amuck through an old growth forest.

In Australia we've lost a massive amount of our original forests in a continent which is the driest on earth. I spent some my early days on a Cat earthmoving for the NSW Soil Conservation Service repairing and preventing erosion damage and building dams and waterways to save water. I later bought my own dozers and went out on my own doing similar work in another state which did not have a soil conservation service that owned it's own equipment. We worked on farms where farmers whinged about greenies and environmentalists stopping them from making a buck while they ran down their farms overgrazing, overcropping and generally flogging it to death hoping the Govt would give them a handout to keep going.

On the other hand I worked on farms where the farmers were planting trees, where it had once been cleared, and ran their farms with sound environmental management practices. These farmers had healthier stock, survived droughts better and didn't expect a Govt handout when things got tough. Being a farmer and a "greenie" can be the most profitable way ahead.

We also have in Australia a timber industry that clearfells old growth forest, chips it and sends it overseas for single use fast food containers or single use chopsticks. When you do the sums on this type of industry it becomes apparent that it only exists through taxpayer subsidies, and is a waste of our forest. But big business interests lobby for these industries and even keep smaller sawmill operators out who would strategically log and turn the timber into high value products for home building, furniture making etc.

I live in a house which has timber in it as do most people. I also own other properties and do some of my own renovation. I like to know where my timber comes from when I buy it and choose to support sustainable sources, preferably local, and not timber from a south east asian rainforest which has had the locals kicked out and is laid waste by some Malaysian forestry business who only has to pay bribes to a few corrupt politicians to destroy the land and rivers where people lived relatively happily for generations.

I think we have a great responsibility to future generations to leave as much as possible of the environment we have benefitted from. As an Australian looking at the USA:usa and European soil through the photos on this site I can't get over the depth of your topsoil - often measured in feet! Here we are lucky to have a few inches, and that can blow away in a bad drought year if we don't look after it! And the last few years have been the driest on record for most of the South East corner of Australia where I live, so I am very conscious that climate change/global warming call it what you will, is having a negative impact here at least. I'll be planting a tree for Christmas, probably a Macadamia so I can protect the environment and have some nuts as well

Have a great Christmas wherever you are, regards Dave

 

[AtlasRob]

I read somewhere that the lower 48 has more forest now than when the Pilgrims landed. The east coast from Virginia north has so much forest that you can't see nothing for the trees.

JJK, there is a lot of woods in New Jersey, especially over on the west side around Stewartsville along the river. I don't know about parks, but I saw more deer there in the fall of 87 than a lot of other places I've been. I don't know if you can walk around in the woods near Stewartsville Dam and the impoundment. It's very nice there excepting for the bugs and humidity. Can't swim or fish the lake though, too much asbestos in the water, at least last I knew.

Hi guys.
At the risk of creating a few flames

I'm not picking on Surfer Joe's quote above, just noting that it contains comments that may or may not be true, but is being used to justify a point of view regardless of its veracity. This seems to happen fairly often in the forum just to stick it to the greenies etc who also strangely appear to be skiers as well. (In Australia "greenies" tend to be against expanding ski resort development).


Have a great Christmas wherever you are, regards Dave

I read the first 2 paragraphs and nearly gave up.................. but I did persevere to the end, the only comment I would make ( I have no intention of getting into an argument over your views and opinions of what you have read ) is where in Surfer Joe's quote is there anything about enviromentalists or greenies :beatsme he makes the statement as being HIS understanding of what he read who are you to say its wrong.
As for whether a persons comments are justified or not :beatsme

I read the post as a statement that there is MORE forest, is this statement not FOR the enviroment, :beatsme

NB veracity, habit of telling the truth, truthfulness.

 

[australian pete]

I read the first 2 paragraphs and nearly gave up.................. but I did persevere to the end, the only comment I would make ( I have no intention of getting into an argument over your views and opinions of what you have read ) is where in Surfer Joe's quote is there anything about enviromentalists or greenies :beatsme he makes the statement as being HIS understanding of what he read who are you to say its wrong.
As for whether a persons comments are justified or not :beatsme

I read the post as a statement that there is MORE forest, is this statement not FOR the enviroment, :beatsme

NB veracity, habit of telling the truth, truthfulness.

atlas rob, you are absolutely correct regarding surfer joe's comments and ausdaves comments about surfer joe.

as an australian i am embarrased by ausdaves comments, he makes a lot of statements without any real detail or evidence to back up his vague assertions, as for greenies and do gooders, they have their place i guess however ausdave and i may not agree as to where that place is. as for logging trees i cant see any problem provided more are planted to replace the trees logged, they grow back very quickly,when we mine coal, iron ore, minerals, oil etc they have taken millions of years to form, plant some trees and in 200 years thet are old growth forests". in a planet that is billions of years old 200 or even 400 years to grow some more trees is just a moment in time..

 

[AusDave]

Hi Aussie Pete & Atlas Rob.

Yeah, apologies re the length of the post you are responding to, in trying to be clear about what I was saying it seems I wasn't.

Firstly what I was trying to state was that my views mainly come from my experience and involvement as both a heavy equipment operator and owner in earthmoving & allied work, agriculture and my own businesses over nearly 30 years. In that time I have worked in the forestry industry as well. So Aussie Pete the background to my comments is not vague assertions etc and I'm happy to provide boring detail to back them up.

What I meant from Surfer Joe's post, as purely an example mind, is that although there may look to be a lot of trees in a region they may be just a buffer zone that is highly visible, a lot of trees may be exotic pest species, (some from Australia even), or it may be a monoculture that is no benefit to local native plants & animals and possibly susceptible to being wiped out from a single pest, disease, bushfire etc. Therefore it may be a poor example of justification for taking more trees from the region or elsewhere. But as I stated, there are a number of ways of logging, some are better for the environment and employment than others.

Yeah, I know I'm being the devils advocate here, but just as there are a lot of fine distinctions between different types of heavy equipment, (and from years of doing my own mechanical work I've come across a few), there are also a lot of fine distinctions between anything from a forest to a bog in terms of its value as an environmental asset or a fundamental asset to our urban lives such as a clean water supply.

In regard to your comment Aussie Pete re replacing trees etc after mining; in Australia I think we do a pretty good job with regard to mine rehabilitation nowadays. Possibly we are amongst the best in the world. It's in places like New Guinea and other developing countries where mines such as the BHP Ok Tedi project http://www.atimes.com/oceania/ah13ah01.html have caused billions of dollars of damage where the problems lie. I feel really lucky to be in Australia with our quality of life but not happy if other people in New Guinea and other developing countries have their lives, rivers and land destroyed due to poor practices, irresponsible corporations and bad government.

So don't be embarrassed Pete, we probably have a lot more in common than you think. I'm impressed by your mulcher though it's a bit large & costly for the trees and branches I've had to remove recently. The last big bit of timber I wanted to get rid of I had a guy come in with a mini mill and turn it into 2x4's and other useful timber and built some sheds out of it

Oh and don't forget, if the greenies and other members of the community want some things changed it can also be a business opportunity as well. I'm presently building a a small, (2 ton), portable machine for a segment of the recycling industry. I'll post more on this when I've finished construction.

Oh sh*t another long post nobody will understand. Maybe I'll get better with time.

Regards AusDave

 

[John C.]

The problems we have in the US with the greenies is that they never provide a solution to anything. To the majority of them all logging is bad, forest management means no contact by humans and any difference of opinion is settled in long protracted court battles.

In Washington State, our schools are supported in part by the utilization of state owned forests. Many years ago environmental factions used protracted court battles to shut down almost all logging of state forests. The greenies didn't win in the courts, they just spent more money than the attorney general could justify taking from state taxpayers. Now that segment of state government is perpetually underfunded.

The same has happened on the Federal level by using the Endangered Species Act. Basically they have identified an owl that may or may not be doing well in this part of the country. The number of owls in question has never been specifically identified and only vague science has been used to specifically define the issue. But again because of the court battles a resource industry is disappearing.

The people in logging, mining or manufacturing are looking to identify and solve problems. A growing population is going to require resource utilization. Perhaps the greenies should concentrate on limiting their own population as an example of proper resouce managment.

 

[australian pete]

Hi Aussie Pete & Atlas Rob.

Yeah, apologies re the length of the post you are responding to, in trying to be clear about what I was saying it seems I wasn't.

Firstly what I was trying to state was that my views mainly come from my experience and involvement as both a heavy equipment operator and owner in earthmoving & allied work, agriculture and my own businesses over nearly 30 years. In that time I have worked in the forestry industry as well. So Aussie Pete the background to my comments is not vague assertions etc and I'm happy to provide boring detail to back them up.

What I meant from Surfer Joe's post, as purely an example mind, is that although there may look to be a lot of trees in a region they may be just a buffer zone that is highly visible, a lot of trees may be exotic pest species, (some from Australia even), or it may be a monoculture that is no benefit to local native plants & animals and possibly susceptible to being wiped out from a single pest, disease, bushfire etc. Therefore it may be a poor example of justification for taking more trees from the region or elsewhere. But as I stated, there are a number of ways of logging, some are better for the environment and employment than others.

Yeah, I know I'm being the devils advocate here, but just as there are a lot of fine distinctions between different types of heavy equipment, (and from years of doing my own mechanical work I've come across a few), there are also a lot of fine distinctions between anything from a forest to a bog in terms of its value as an environmental asset or a fundamental asset to our urban lives such as a clean water supply.

In regard to your comment Aussie Pete re replacing trees etc after mining; in Australia I think we do a pretty good job with regard to mine rehabilitation nowadays. Possibly we are amongst the best in the world. It's in places like New Guinea and other developing countries where mines such as the BHP Ok Tedi project http://www.atimes.com/oceania/ah13ah01.html have caused billions of dollars of damage where the problems lie. I feel really lucky to be in Australia with our quality of life but not happy if other people in New Guinea and other developing countries have their lives, rivers and land destroyed due to poor practices, irresponsible corporations and bad government.

So don't be embarrassed Pete, we probably have a lot more in common than you think. I'm impressed by your mulcher though it's a bit large & costly for the trees and branches I've had to remove recently. The last big bit of timber I wanted to get rid of I had a guy come in with a mini mill and turn it into 2x4's and other useful timber and built some sheds out of it

Oh and don't forget, if the greenies and other members of the community want some things changed it can also be a business opportunity as well. I'm presently building a a small, (2 ton), portable machine for a segment of the recycling industry. I'll post more on this when I've finished construction.

Oh sh*t another long post nobody will understand. Maybe I'll get better with time.

Regards AusDave

aus dave, i did not suggest australia is bad at rehabilitating mines, not sure where you got that, i too am a proud australian who thinks we do a brilliant job of rehabilitating old mines, a great example of that is penrith lakes near where i live, a huge deposit of sand and concrete aggregates that is being turned in to a magnificent series of lakes at no cost to the residents, penrith lakes hosted the rowing in the 2000 olympics, i will decline your offer of providing more boring detail, i think you have already done plenty of that. some friendly advice, keep the posts short and do not cover too many subjects in one post.

 

[australian pete]

The problems we have in the US with the greenies is that they never provide a solution to anything. To the majority of them all logging is bad, forest management means no contact by humans and any difference of opinion is settled in long protracted court battles.

In Washington State, our schools are supported in part by the utilization of state owned forests. Many years ago environmental factions used protracted court battles to shut down almost all logging of state forests. The greenies didn't win in the courts, they just spent more money than the attorney general could justify taking from state taxpayers. Now that segment of state government is perpetually underfunded.

The same has happened on the Federal level by using the Endangered Species Act. Basically they have identified an owl that may or may not be doing well in this part of the country. The number of owls in question has never been specifically identified and only vague science has been used to specifically define the issue. But again because of the court battles a resource industry is disappearing.

The people in logging, mining or manufacturing are looking to identify and solve problems. A growing population is going to require resource utilization. Perhaps the greenies should concentrate on limiting their own population as an example of proper resouce managment.

john, i like your solution to greenie resource managment. sadly however i doubt they will consider your suggestion, they do not usually like logical outcomes.

 

[PSDF350]

The problems we have in the US with the greenies is that they never provide a solution to anything. To the majority of them all logging is bad, forest management means no contact by humans and any difference of opinion is settled in long protracted court battles.

In Washington State, our schools are supported in part by the utilization of state owned forests. Many years ago environmental factions used protracted court battles to shut down almost all logging of state forests. The greenies didn't win in the courts, they just spent more money than the attorney general could justify taking from state taxpayers. Now that segment of state government is perpetually underfunded.

The same has happened on the Federal level by using the Endangered Species Act. Basically they have identified an owl that may or may not be doing well in this part of the country. The number of owls in question has never been specifically identified and only vague science has been used to specifically define the issue. But again because of the court battles a resource industry is disappearing.

The people in logging, mining or manufacturing are looking to identify and solve problems. A growing population is going to require resource utilization. Perhaps the greenies should concentrate on limiting their own population as an example of proper resouce managment.

Let's no forget that the spotted owl it is now known wasn't endangerd from logging but a bigger owl.ointhead

 

[AtlasRob]

AusDave, thanks for your response.

I dont really want to flame this issue as I am sure many of us have opinions about many things that are best kept to the bar on a Friday night with a few mates and a couple of beers.
BUT
It amazes me that as soon as a new road or development is planned the site has to be investigated by the enviromental specialists.........and low and behold some rare species of flower, fauna or wild life is discovered that people thought was long exstinct or never been discovered in this part of the country before and therefore it becomes a SSSI. ( Site of Special Scientific Interest )
Its probably been there and a lot of other places for time and eternity, just nobody bothered to go and look before. :beatsme :drinkup

 

[AusDave]

AusDave, thanks for your response.

I dont really want to flame this issue as I am sure many of us have opinions about many things that are best kept to the bar on a Friday night with a few mates and a couple of beers.
BUT
It amazes me that as soon as a new road or development is planned the site has to be investigated by the enviromental specialists.........and low and behold some rare species of flower, fauna or wild life is discovered that people thought was long exstinct or never been discovered in this part of the country before and therefore it becomes a SSSI. ( Site of Special Scientific Interest )
Its probably been there and a lot of other places for time and eternity, just nobody bothered to go and look before. :beatsme :drinkup

Hi Atlas Rob.

I've been involved in situations such as you describe and quite often there is basic or detailed knowledge that some rare or threatened species is or could be located on a certain site. However the local council, state or federal Govt isn't keen to spend a lot of taxpayers money on studies. That happens when a developer comes along and wants to develop that site. They pay for the environmental studies and it goes on from there.

We had and still do have a situation in my area where one of Australia's largest developers bought a heavily wooded site and then had to cough up to do the environmental studies and a lot of other $$ work. However they can't complain they didn't know as the previous developer knew what they were up for and that's why they sold the site. Most of the community knew the issues as well. The proposed development site adjoined National Parks and all runoff flowed into a Marine Park in an area where the main industry is tourism.
Didn't have to be a genius to know this site was gonna cost. And now they are having trouble selling lots because of the collapse in the housing market. Considering what they paid for the land I think they speculated more than their shareholders would be happy with.

In my opinion however things are going to be more like this than less in the future. There are just more people every year and less resources like unencumbered land, cheap non polluting energy etc to go round. A friend of mine bought an old Mercedes diesel car and processed his own fuel from local fish and chip shop deep friers. Smart move. He's also been importing and selling wind generators on eBay and doing well there too. He used to mainly do cartoon animation work but as that work went offshore to sweatshops in Asia, he had to diversify.

A bit shorter post this time, I hope it makes sense, AusDave

 

[australian pete]

Hi Atlas Rob.

I've been involved in situations such as you describe and quite often there is basic or detailed knowledge that some rare or threatened species is or could be located on a certain site. However the local council, state or federal Govt isn't keen to spend a lot of taxpayers money on studies. That happens when a developer comes along and wants to develop that site. They pay for the environmental studies and it goes on from there.

We had and still do have a situation in my area where one of Australia's largest developers bought a heavily wooded site and then had to cough up to do the environmental studies and a lot of other $$ work. However they can't complain they didn't know as the previous developer knew what they were up for and that's why they sold the site. Most of the community knew the issues as well. The proposed development site adjoined National Parks and all runoff flowed into a Marine Park in an area where the main industry is tourism.
Didn't have to be a genius to know this site was gonna cost. And now they are having trouble selling lots because of the collapse in the housing market. Considering what they paid for the land I think they speculated more than their shareholders would be happy with.

In my opinion however things are going to be more like this than less in the future. There are just more people every year and less resources like unencumbered land, cheap non polluting energy etc to go round. A friend of mine bought an old Mercedes diesel car and processed his own fuel from local fish and chip shop deep friers. Smart move. He's also been importing and selling wind generators on eBay and doing well there too. He used to mainly do cartoon animation work but as that work went offshore to sweatshops in Asia, he had to diversify.

A bit shorter post this time, I hope it makes sense, AusDave

hi aus dave , the site you refer to that all runoff goes in to a marine park, where is that site ? who is the developer ? im curious.

 

[AusDave]

hi aus dave , the site you refer to that all runoff goes in to a marine park, where is that site ? who is the developer ? im curious.

Hi Aussie Pete.

The site is adjoining Jervis Bay Marine Park and the developer is Stockland.

Regards Dave

 

[special tool]

opcorn
Haha, great thread!
Australian Pete - thanks for lending some balance.

 

[australian pete]

Hi Aussie Pete.

The site is adjoining Jervis Bay Marine Park and the developer is Stockland.

Regards Dave

that's a nice part of the world there, i learnt to scuba dive at huskisson many years ago, how much are they trying to sell the blocks for?

 

[australian pete]

opcorn
Haha, great thread!
Australian Pete - thanks for lending some balance.

thanks special tool, dunno if i bring any balance though, i am anti greenie, anti do gooder, anti epa, pro mining and pro logging.

 

[Iron Horse]

Even people like myself who take down trees for a living and to support a thriving building industry are enviromentaly aware . We are cautious of where a tree may fall so it does not damage other trees and native plants . We are cautious of where and how we drive our machines when recovering a log . We own state of the art machinery and trucks that run as clean as possible . Our trucks have central tyre inflation systems fitted so that pressures can be adjusted in motion so that tyre damage to logging roads is at a minimum etc etc . Logging is an essential industry from a renewable resource .

In Australia , someone who cares for the enviroment is not the "Greenie" we speak of .

The "Greenie" we speak of is the one with the Roach infested Dreadlocks , on the Dole for all of their life , drives a smoke belching enviromental nightmare car and turns up at protest rallies with the other "Rent-A-Mob" clowns and leaves the area looking like a rubbish tip when it's over .

It was assesed some years ago that one of these scumbags living on the Dole and not producing an income for the country was in fact costing the country 3 million dollars in Dole payments , health care and lost revenue etc during thier lifetime . The cost at the mill for a load of logs is about $1600 . The recovery is about 2/3 of saw timber . I wonder how many loads of logs has to be taken from the forests just to cover the 3 million dollars per "Greenie" (and theres plenty of them) before we as a country even break even ? So when you see a "Greenie" up a tri-pod , chained to a gate or burning a machine , do the right thing and think of the enviroment .

 

[australian pete]

Even people like myself who take down trees for a living and to support a thriving building industry are enviromentaly aware . We are cautious of where a tree may fall so it does not damage other trees and native plants . We are cautious of where and how we drive our machines when recovering a log . We own state of the art machinery and trucks that run as clean as possible . Our trucks have central tyre inflation systems fitted so that pressures can be adjusted in motion so that tyre damage to logging roads is at a minimum etc etc . Logging is an essential industry from a renewable resource .

In Australia , someone who cares for the enviroment is not the "Greenie" we speak of .

The "Greenie" we speak of is the one with the Roach infested Dreadlocks , on the Dole for all of their life , drives a smoke belching enviromental nightmare car and turns up at protest rallies with the other "Rent-A-Mob" clowns and leaves the area looking like a rubbish tip when it's over .

It was assesed some years ago that one of these scumbags living on the Dole and not producing an income for the country was in fact costing the country 3 million dollars in Dole payments , health care and lost revenue etc during thier lifetime . The cost at the mill for a load of logs is about $1600 . The recovery is about 2/3 of saw timber . I wonder how many loads of logs has to be taken from the forests just to cover the 3 million dollars per "Greenie" (and theres plenty of them) before we as a country even break even ? So when you see a "Greenie" up a tri-pod , chained to a gate or burning a machine , do the right thing and think of the enviroment .

gidday iron horse, you have been quiet, agree with you regarding the greenies you describe, i believe we have to do most things in life in moderation, whether that be mining, logging, driving, working, drinking beer or saving the environment, sadly however i have never met nor heard of a moderate greenie,they are against everything except electric cars, solar and wind power. while those are great we do need other stuff which is where i start do disagree with greenies.how is your new excavator going ? have a happy new year, regards, pete.

 

[AusDave]

that's a nice part of the world there, i learnt to scuba dive at huskisson many years ago, how much are they trying to sell the blocks for?

Yes it's very nice which is why we live here. Don't want to see it stuffed up. Years ago they wanted to put a nuclear power station on one side of the Bay and a Steel Mill on the other. The water can be so clear that some large ships anchor here for an underwater inspection. Some pics below of the area and me getting some recreation and work time. I sell kitesurfing and windsurfing equipment over summer too

The Stockland property prices are here http://www.stockland.com.au/Residential/NSW/SouthCoast/Bayswood/Land/ for land and here http://www.stockland.com.au/Residential/NSW/SouthCoast/Bayswood/Homes/ for homes.
But there is a lot of property on the market down here in better (even waterfront) locations at very good prices. There are a lot of holiday homes in the villages here that come on the market frequently, especially now, plus retirees who are often selling up for smaller or moving on.

Regards Dave

 

[Iron Horse]

gidday iron horse, you have been quiet, agree with you regarding the greenies you describe, i believe we have to do most things in life in moderation, whether that be mining, logging, driving, working, drinking beer or saving the environment, sadly however i have never met nor heard of a moderate greenie,they are against everything except electric cars, solar and wind power. while those are great we do need other stuff which is where i start do disagree with greenies.how is your new excavator going ? have a happy new year, regards, pete.

G'day Pete , happy new year mate , and to all .

I get into trouble with people at BBQ'S because of what i do for a living . They get up me for clearing trees for housing developments etc . I say to them that they never said a word when the trees were coming down to make room for thier "wooden" framed house . They say proudly , yes it is wooden framed but most of it is brick and tile . I then say , yes brick and tiles that are made out of clay . Have you ever seen the size of area they clear and the size of the hole they dig to extract the clay for those bricks and tiles or the coke they burn to cure them ? Everyone is "Green" while it suits them .

Eventualy the conversation turns to "Geen" power , i bite my tongue for a while and then ask them , have you any idea how poluting the factories are that produce Photovolactic panels ? What about the factories that produce the lead batteries or the factory that makes the Sulphuric acid to fill those batteries ? I then go sit with the wife who is the only one still talking to me .

I wish these "Greenies" would go out and actually do something positive for the enviroment to lessen THIER footprint on the planet . Instead of talking GREEN and protesting against EVERTHING . Go out and shoot some feral cats and dogs , go out and spray some Lantana in the forest or pick up some rubbish along the roadside , DON'T JUST TALK ABOUT IT , DO IT .

Now that's out of my system .
The excavator is still running well , but now ive created a need for a large chipper to get rid of the waste . I did'nt want to get that big and have to start employing guys as i like it on my own . Regards Reg .

 

[australian pete]

G'day Pete , happy new year mate , and to all .

I get into trouble with people at BBQ'S because of what i do for a living . They get up me for clearing trees for housing developments etc . I say to them that they never said a word when the trees were coming down to make room for thier "wooden" framed house . They say proudly , yes it is wooden framed but most of it is brick and tile . I then say , yes brick and tiles that are made out of clay . Have you ever seen the size of area they clear and the size of the hole they dig to extract the clay for those bricks and tiles or the coke they burn to cure them ? Everyone is "Green" while it suits them .

Eventualy the conversation turns to "Geen" power , i bite my tongue for a while and then ask them , have you any idea how poluting the factories are that produce Photovolactic panels ? What about the factories that produce the lead batteries or the factory that makes the Sulphuric acid to fill those batteries ? I then go sit with the wife who is the only one still talking to me .

I wish these "Greenies" would go out and actually do something positive for the enviroment to lessen THIER footprint on the planet . Instead of talking GREEN and protesting against EVERTHING . Go out and shoot some feral cats and dogs , go out and spray some Lantana in the forest or pick up some rubbish along the roadside , DON'T JUST TALK ABOUT IT , DO IT .

Now that's out of my system .
The excavator is still running well , but now ive created a need for a large chipper to get rid of the waste . I did'nt want to get that big and have to start employing guys as i like it on my own . Regards Reg .

happy new year to you reg, i could not agree more with your comments about greenies, like i said i have never met a moderate greenie, i think it is good to have people who care about the environment otherwise the planet would be raped and pillaged, it is just a shame they cant be a little more balanced and not oppose anything and everything. i live on 46 acres, 10 of it was cleared when i moved here 2 years ago, another 10 acres is scrub and regrowth where it had been cleared years ago, the rest is natural bush with various eacalyptus trees, i started clearing the regrowth with an old fiat track loader, worked for 2 days and cleared about 5 acres when a neighbour dobbed me in to the council, council inspector comes out and reads me the riot act, i played dumb and said some of the stuff i cleared was to get at the lantana to spray it, was like a jungle, you could not walk through it, he told me i would have to spray it with a back pack which was impossible, have since done a little more selective clearing with a skid steer (much quieter) and have now got rid of all the lantana, he even got up me about pushing over dead trees because insects lived in them and birds ate the insects, i replied the dead trees were still there for the insects to live in, they were now horizontal rather than vertical and i did not think the insects would mind, he failed to appreciate my sense of humour. i know what you mean about employing people, i have myself and 1 guy which is ok, in previous businesses i have employed a lot more and 1 employee is much easier to manage although none is easier still, as to your position i guess your dammed if you do and dammed if you dont.