2005 John Deere 410G - No Forward, Goes reverse in neutral and Reverse

[Jhall1907]

My 2005 JD 410G back hoe stopped going forward. I moved it about 50 feet and it ran strong and accelerated normally. I stopped and put it in neutral and turned the e-brake on. I then turned the e-brake off and shifted into forward and nothing happened. It also goes in reverse when I have it in neutral and reverse.

Here is what I have observed:
FNR control in forward - Nothing happens, the wheels slightly spin when they are lifted up but with zero power.
FNR control in neutral - Full power in reverse, but it will stop if the e-brake is turned on.
FNR control in Reverse - Full power in reverse, even when e-brake switch is on.

I have tested the FNR control on the steering column for continuity in each position and it appears to be working correctly. I also pulled the plug at the control valve and there is voltage there (don't know what the pins are but the pins get voltage when I shift)

I checked the fuse block above the steering column and the relays and fuses seem to be working fine.

Transmission fluid seems a little over full if anything.

My next thought was to take the cover off of the control valve and check that the spools are free, solenoids are working, and no springs are broken, but before I do that, I wanted to check here and see if there is any other things I should be trying first.

I have owned this thing for about a year with zero issues.

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[mg2361]

Welcome to HEF Jhall1907!

Serial number please. Model years mean absolutely nothing in the equipment world.

 

[Jhall1907]

Hi mg2361, and thank you!

it is T0410GX908971

It has powershift (no shifter on the floor). when its in reverse, it shifts gears fine.

 

[mg2361]

Do you have a digital multimeter? Remove the FNR/Park Brake fuse. Place your meter set to amps (10 amp scale) in place of the fuse (red lead to fuse terminal closer to windshield). Then turn your key on (engine off). Put the seat into the backhoe position. Cycle park brake to off. Then record your amps in neutral, Forward all gears and Reverse all gears. Post the results.

 

[Jhall1907]

I'm pretty sure I followed your instructions correctly, but I am not getting a reading in any position...

I used the F12 fuse seen here - http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMT166701_19/CED_OUO1079_455_19_13JUL00_1.htm

 

[mg2361]

F12 would be correct. You have the meter on the amp scale with the red lead in the fuse connection windshield side with the black lead in the fuse connection seat side?

 

[Jhall1907]

That is how I had it hooked up, but I think my meter might not be working for amp readings. I tried another but same story. I had a friend with a snap-on power probe give it a try and it came up with some odd readings.

If I start in neutral, then shift forward, and then reverse I get these readings:
N- .15A
F1- .5A
F2- .49A
F3- .49A
F4- .49A
R1- 3.4A
R2- 3.4A
R3- 3.4A

I noticed that once I have shifted into reverse, they all start reading pretty close when I cycle through them. Here is the readings if I have shifted into reverse first:

N- 3.4A
F1- 3.6A
F2- 3.6A
F3- 3.6A
F4- 3.6A
R1- 3.3A
R2- 3.3A
R3- 3.3A

 

[mg2361]

Reverse looks good. Definitely something amiss with those readings in forward. The first set of readings leads me to believe you have an FNR issue not sending the necessary amperage to the solenoids. According to the second set your forward should have worked (even though there should have been a drop in amps in 4th).

At your FNR, backprobe the pink wire on the 4 pin connector and see what voltage you have when your issue is happening. Then do the same thing with the Tan wire on the 5 pin connector and report back.

 

[Jhall1907]

With E-Brake on:
Pink - F (11.0V) - N (11.2V) - R (10.1V)
Tan - F (0V) - N (0V) - R (9.1V)

With E-Brake off:
Pink - F (10.4V) - N (10.5V) - R (10.3V)
Tan - F (10.3V) - N (10.3V) - R (10.3V)

 

[mg2361]

With engine running at idle, wheels up so you don't move or foot on the brake, park brake off seat forward backprobe all your blue wires in both connectors (terminals B, C, and D in the 4 pin and terminals A, B, C and D in the 5 pin) and check voltage in each gear forward and reverse.

The 4 pin connector should have voltage at pin B in F and pin C in R.
The 5 pin connector should have voltage at pins A, C and D for 1st. Pins A, B and C for 2nd. B, C and D for 3rd. B and D for 4th. Post results.

 

[Jhall1907]

The 4 pin connector reads as follows:
F - Voltage in B and C
N - Voltage in D and C
R - Voltage in C

The 5 pin reads as you said for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, but in 4th it is B, C, D

 

[mg2361]

Your FNR is defective. There should be no voltage at pin C in the 4 pin or the 5 pin connectors in Forward.

 

[Jhall1907]

I really appreciate you putting in the time to give me a hand with this!

I will be away for a few days and then I might take the lever apart to see if there is anything repairable before I buy a new one. I'll post the results when i get it up and running!

 

[Jhall1907]

I have the FNR switch all apart and from what I can tell, all the components seem to be fine. Diodes check out fine, micro switches work as expected. That looks to be pretty much it.

I am hoping you can give me some info about pin C on the 4 pin connector. The second I release the park brake, I'm seeing voltage to this pin, even with the FNR switch disconnected. the voltage increases by about a volt when I plug in the fnr and put it in reverse. The wire coming into pin C is T13. I have the service manual, but it doesn't have schematics unfortunately.

 

[mg2361]

I have the service manual, but it doesn't have schematics unfortunately.

You have the repair manual. You need the Operation and test manual TM1883.

Seeing voltage at pin C with FNR disconnected.....Both connectors disconnected?

I'll get back to you.

 

[Jhall1907]

Did you mean TM1881? I will buy it, but I wanted to confirm that this is the correct one.

Yes, I get voltage at pin C of the 4 pin connector when the FNR is completely disconnected.

When the park brake is turned off, I get voltage to pin C. If I have the park brake off when I turn the key to on, there is no voltage until I cycle the park brake switch. (This is all done without starting engine and with the FNR completely disconnected.)

 

[mg2361]

Sorry, you are correct. TM1881.

Interesting that you have voltage to pin C when PB released. There should be no connection between the two. If you unplug the timer relay that is mounted on the fender under you instrument panel, does the voltage at C go away? Also under the instrument panel should be a cluster of diodes zip tied to the harness. 3 diodes I think. The V7 timer relay diode will have the T13 and T21 blue wire going to it. Test that diode. Check those two things. I'll have to take a look at the schematic and get back to you.

The above mentioned manual will have the schematics.

 

[Jhall1907]

When I unplug the timer relay mounted on the fender, the voltage stays the same at pin C. I tested the diode and it is working. It reads .54V and then nothing when the polarity is reversed.

 

[Jhall1907]

Well, based on your comment about the park brake and pin C have no connection, I had another look at the harness. Sure enough, when I started spreading wires apart at the plugs behind the gas pedal, the casings started crumbling.

There was quite a few wires with copper showing! its a wonder the machine worked at all!



After a night of soldering and replacing bad wires, I put it all back together and PROBLEM SOLVED!

I'm pretty happy I dodged the $1100 they want up here for that FNR lever!

Thanks for the guidance mg2361! Much Appreciated!

 

[JL Sargent]

Man, how can all those wires be so roached out? Has it been on fire? Now, how to properly repair that?