580C Shuttle shift question

[outlawspeeder]

So I think I might have a problem. This 580C has been sitting for over 10 years and I am getting it back to a usable state. Digging is strong. Bucket is strong. Brakes are good. Diff lock is good.

It is like it is not strong enough to move itself. I know I am still getting use to how big this is but I don't think it would climb a hill. In 2nd gear it will not do light digging. (i.e. one inch of loose driveway rock) On flat ground it will move in 1,2,3,&4 but its not like it is willing to just take up. This is based of of me using a normal clutch.
What should I check?
Where is a good place to buy clutches for a rebuild? Yes, I figure I going to have to rebuild. How hare is it to pull?

 

[outlawspeeder]

Any one buy from Finney Parts?

https://finneyparts.us/case-580c-58...ttle-kit-includ-new-seals-gaskets-sd423452271

 

[Vetech63]

I have bought those kits before, it should have everything you need for a full rebuild with the exception of any hard parts. There are some specifications on the stack height and travel that is set by the thickness of the snap ring in the clutch housing. It is critical to have that right for proper operation so I suggest you get a repair manual also.

 

[melben]

Really not enough info to make any recommendations yet, It is a Torque Converter machine and cannot be compared with a manual clutch in some respects, for max performance the engine needs to be run at high RPMs. They will seem sluggish in 4 th gear. A stall speed figure would tell us a lot, Holding the brakes with the transmission in 4 th gear forward shuttle with the throttle wide open and comparing wide open RPM between neutral in the shuttle and then loaded RPM with the shuttle engaged would tell us a lot. Also do the same in reverse as if the reverser units have a weakness it is usually the forward clutch that fails. ff the engine says at a very low rpm under load a sprag failure in the TC itself may be your problem. If it digs well and handles the hydraulic system well for engine power then the problem is not the engine. You could also check hydraulic stall also. Wide open throttle no load ,then RPM with a cylinder bottomed holding pressure under load.

 

[outlawspeeder]

What does every one use for shuttle oil?
Also am I checking this right? Running in natural, warm.

 

[outlawspeeder]

I put the 580 against a tree and tried to push it. 4 and 3 the motor doesn't stall and tires don't spin. In 2nd the tire will spin a little only at full throttle. 1st it will spin only if I give it gas and nothing like what I get off my ford 1301.
I try to go up a small incline and it the 580C will not climb it in 3rd or 4th.

What is the normal for a 580C? Should a 580C be able to start off in 4th? 3rd?
Asking because this it the 1st 580C I have ran.

 

[Vetech63]

Stall the engine in each gear and notice if it sounds the same each time. It’s better to have a tachometer that you can reference

 

[outlawspeeder]

Engine will not stall.

 

[Tinkerer]

What does every one use for shuttle oil?
Also am I checking this right? Running in natural, warm.

 

[mitch504]

What you describe sounds pretty normal for a 580c, maybe just a little weak. 4th is really a road travel gear only, and 3rd is for unloaded travel.

When he said stall test it, he meant hold the throttle down when the machine can't move. A torque converter machine won't choke the engine off.

 

[outlawspeeder]

Tinkerer been looking for this!!! 4th gear. I did neutral for both and it was very low. Now filled.
Mitch504 So I put the bucket against a tree and the engine didn't stall in any gear.

My fear, I have to take the 580C down a hill that is 40 to 45% down a unprepared dirt path about 30 yards. My fear is not going down but getting it back up [isn't that always the problem]. Again this is the 1st and only time I have driven this type of toy. Guess I am going to take it down the hill and see if it will make it back up. I have plans to move dirt using the bucket from the bottom. I can't get a truck down there.

Side note: the diff lock is working and the brakes are fair.

Rebuild kit is less then 300 and 50 for oils so its not the money. Pullin it out is not bad. 6 mounts bolts, drive shaft, lines and a couple of wires. I just don't want to do the work and still have that same power.

Wish I knew someone in the STL area that has some time and experience with 580Cs to test it out.

Thank You all for the help!

 

[stinky64]

How does the trans being in 4th gear affect oil level in the shuttle? Especially if shuttle is in neutral? Things that make ya go Hmmm.......

 

[outlawspeeder]

The only thing I could think of is to hold the output of the shuttle from spinning?

 

[melben]

I always check them in 4 th gear forward shuttle idling, that way the rotating parts in the power shuttle are froze and oil splash is not a problem. Do not let the fact that you cannot stall the engine in any gear bother you, that is the way they are designed, they have a torque converter, no direct coupling to the flywheel, the TC is doing exactly what it is supposed to do Make sure the engine rpms are where they belong, make sure the high speed screw on the side of the pump is against it's stop aqt wide open throttle, the engine will transmit most torque when the throttle is wide open. your machine should spin in low gear when pushing but don't assume the shuttle is bad, if it locks up the same in forward as it does in reverse it is doing what it is supposed to. I will repeat what I posted earlier, if the sprag in the torque converter itself fails, the engine rpms will stay VERY low, just above idle rpm in 4 th gear wide open throttle forward shuttle. From some of your responses I get the idea that you are not familiar with a torque converter drive like you have, pushing will only be maximized at wide open throttle that is when maximum engine torque is being transmitted. Get thoroughly familiar with the machine and its drive before making a judgement that it needs rebuilt.

 

[outlawspeeder]

Melben I guess I am used to a torque converter that locks up at a lower RPM. Do these even lock up? I'll test the push pull and see if I get the same. I think it is just that I don't know. If the next photos you see of the 580C is stuck in the bottoms I will make sure it is deep in the mud.

What you don't know of what you don't know will get you killed. Words to live by. Its been 1996 since I dealt with driving and moving heavy eq. Back when I thought I was bullet proof. Am a lot older...

 

[Tinkerer]

Outlawspeeder;
Did you used to drag race in your past life ?
I haven't heard anyone refer to a lock up convertor in a lot of years.
I know GM torque convertors had clutches in them.

 

[mks]

Stall test question.
The intent is to note what the highest rpm the engine reaches in each gear under the conditions outlined above?

 

[Tinkerer]

Yes.

 

[outlawspeeder]

Really with tag of Outlawspeeder?

I am putting a 1970 W-30 back together so I am nor racing right now, more of just a car guy. It is frame off right now.

 

[Tinkerer]

I kinda figured it, with that username !