A recent job

[CM1995]

One of our crews started a small C900 fire line today with hydrant and building lead in.

 

[DGODGR]

Per your suggestion I am bringing this over from CM's thread:

I personally have slobbering love affair with npk and particularly old npk at that 2 of my hammers ar as old as I am another is real close and then the last 1100 pounder that I bought is only about 4 years old and it's no were near as good as my h4xe.

I think NPK makes good hammers. I was also considering one of those when I bought my 5,500# hammer. I looked at your thread and one of the small hammers you had looked pretty old. Not judging by scratches/cosmetics but by the lower casting (where lower bushing would be housed). It almost looks like it is from the "Art-Deco" era. New hammers are expensive (see Cm's last post) and if you can keep that older hammer running well I see no reason to replace it. A new one won't bring you any more per hour.

We mainly run backhoes 416 and 310s for the smaller ones and a 446 for the bigger tho I did just acquire a 314 excavator so I have that for the 7xs now.

I started out with a 416B. The last TLB that I bought is a '97 416C. I bought both new and I still have the 416C. It has about 13,000 hours on it now. I almost bought a hammer for my 416. If I were still in CA I am sure I would be running one. Back when my '97 416C was new I was a bit fearful of what a hammer would do to my pride and joy. Funny thing is I was invited by CAT to go to Peoria and demo the prototype D model 420. While I was being debriefed (by the guy who was responsible for TLBs at CAT) I asked what CAT found to be the attachment that put the most stress on a backhoe. I thought (for sure) that he would say a hammer but he did not. He said that their research indicated that a compaction wheel was the most stressful. I moved to CO before I bought a hammer and ironically I had already been running a compaction wheel (on and off) for a few years.

We used to have a kobelco 210 LC series 2 that was a wore out girl when we bought for like half of scrap it cost double what we paid for it to plumb it and the we hung a 10 x witch is 3500 or 4000 lbs I think we owned that machine for about 6 years and 2000 ish hours and i probably put at least 1200 of them on it never had to fix a thing on that machine we sold it right before in 08 before I got out of high school.

My girlfriend's brother owns a Kobelco 210. He is an owner/operator and I think he said that he has a bit over 10,000 hours in it. He claims that he has had no major issues with it and currently doesn't have any plans to replace it. Your thread showed your dad sitting in a Hitachi 210 with an Okada hammer on it and you did not mention either in your reply. Was that a rental?

As far as rock you get a variety like granite and white granite blue granite both of witch will eat a point fast if your not paying attention then you get all varieties of cleach and last but not least you get malipi witch is pretty much straight lava all this rock comes in a variety of hard ness but my favorite is what we call baby powder rock cause you literally grind it to dust cause it dont break off in any pieces.

As I mentioned in my last post I have something similar in my neighborhood. The "b*****d rock" here is a mixture that the geotech guys call "sandy limestone". What point design do you usually run on your tools? Do you notice that one type works better than any other? I have been running chisel points on mine. It doesn't take long before they are "blunts". I just had one re-chiseld (cut to factory spec by a water-jet cutter) and am anxious to see how it does. I plan to use it tomorrow. Another irony is that the MFR recommends blunt tip for bedrock. I'm not sure if I agree-which is why I'm inquiring.

As far as rock you get a variety like granite and white granite blue granite both of witch will eat a point fast if your not paying attention then you get all varieties of cleach and last but not least you get malipi witch is pretty much straight lava all this rock comes in a variety of hard ness but my favorite is what we call baby powder rock cause you literally grind it to dust cause it dont break off in any pieces.
It can get boring but it pays by the hour it's a good challenge I have taken on quite a few rock jobs others have given up on it makes a challenge sometimes frustrating especially when you wipe out a point but I have never had a machine failure from hammers abusing equipment and at one time dad had 7 of them banging everyday

A new tool for my hammer is only about $1,300 (for OEM). If we run the hammer long enough to wear out a tool I should have also generated enough revenue so that I won't worry about buying another. I bought the hammer and crusher to specialize in rock jobs (as they can be lucrative) so I don't shy away from them either.

 

[AzIron]

I have only had 2 npk hammer failure s if you want to call them that one was a 10x so 4000lbs category on our kobelco rock was so hard the hammer was bouncing back after 4 days to get through a section we were probably a day from being done and a stay bolt broke and fell out the other one I personally dropped off a trailer about 2 feet and it wiped out the nitrogen seal so npk is the only hammer we buy

As far as worn yea they get into the rock and it leaves its mark small hammers get shoved in places they dont fit but foundation wise there's years of life left in them cause what you see is not a wear item

 

[AzIron]

My girlfriend's brother owns a Kobelco 210. He is an owner/operator and I think he said that he has a bit over 10,000 hours in it. He claims that he has had no major issues with it and currently doesn't have any plans to replace it. Your thread showed your dad sitting in a Hitachi 210 with an Okada hammer on it and you did not mention either in your reply. Was that a rental?

We rented that Hitachi really good machine the hammer not so much it hit pretty good but I have never seen vibration like that injected into a machine the hop in the boom rams was atrocious that hammer had blade dampeners inside it and was solid mounted to the holster bad design that was a 4000lbs hammer. If I were buying a new excavator hitachi is the only thing I would really look at and as for hammers I will keep buying used npk parts are cheap

Kobelco seems to be a decent machine service here for one doesnt exist the machine we had was old and about shot when we got all we used it for was hammering and we babyed it. In fact dad and grandpa went to the auction that day looking at 2 7x hammers there they bought the one that didn't run for pennies and there were like 35 excavators there and the cats were going in the low 20s this was in 1998 if I remember right well they got down to off brands and no one was bidding so dad took his pick of about 6 bought that machine taxes and all 5400 bucks that machine broke down one time on us ever plugged fuel filter it had some quirks and it was tired the outfit that bought it from us killed it in 3 weeks and 200 hours hydraulic got hot pump seized and it supposedly trashed the engine

 

[AzIron]

I started out with a 416B. The last TLB that I bought is a '97 416C. I bought both new and I still have the 416C. It has about 13,000 hours on it now. I almost bought a hammer for my 416. If I were still in CA I am sure I would be running one. Back when my '97 416C was new I was a bit fearful of what a hammer would do to my pride and joy. Funny thing is I was invited by CAT to go to Peoria and demo the prototype D model 420. While I was being debriefed (by the guy who was responsible for TLBs at CAT) I asked what CAT found to be the attachment that put the most stress on a backhoe. I thought (for sure) that he would say a hammer but he did not. He said that their research indicated that a compaction wheel was the most stressful. I moved to CO before I bought a hammer and ironically I had already been running a compaction wheel (on

The c and the b series were just solid my c has 12000 hours a friend of mine is still pushing his b with 30500 hours it no joke one boom 2 pumps and a lot of hoses motor has never been touched besides water pump and turbo so anyone that tells me perkins sucks I laugh at but I have a 446 b and the only thing that will kill it is stupidity that thing is just solid and it has never left me stranded but we maintain it well admittedly tho I dont think the c series can be run as far as the b series were. The truly amazing thing I find with backhoes in general tho is how underrated they are to people I could not imagine a better tool for our market we chase a backhoe is up against its limit of versatility about 3 percent of the time and a good imagination will get you around that I do own a mini ex for things but no excavator of any size will replace my backhoes

 

[AzIron]

As I mentioned in my last post I have something similar in my neighborhood. The "b*****d rock" here is a mixture that the geotech guys call "sandy limestone". What point design do you usually run on your tools? Do you notice that one type works better than any other? I have been running chisel points on mine. It doesn't take long before they are "blunts". I just had one re-chiseld (cut to factory spec by a water-jet cutter) and am anxious to see how it does. I plan to use it tomorrow. Another irony is that the MFR recommends blunt tip for bedrock. I'm not sure if I agree-which is why I'm inquiring.

Water jets are nice for sharpening I know of 2 outfits that do it with a band saw but it takes time with bigger hammers it's hard to keep a point on in really hard rock so a blunt point might be what your stuck with npk gave us an experimental point that was carbide center that thing was awesome it finally wore out not sure if they make them or not

A sharp point is not really necessary it will help in certain applications but a blunted almost flat point doesnt work well on about anything with rock they are good for concrete floors

 

[AzIron]

We are accumulating equipment like a disease around here took delivery of that 314 this morning it looks a little rough but with some TLC we will have her wipped into shape price was right and it only has 5000 hours a d that thing is tight

The hydravac was slightly pawned off on me from a friend that had it but decided he didn't want it no more got an upcoming job at the local fuel farm that need both particularly the vac there is one point that has 12 lines in about 30 feet so it made sense to acquire it

 

[CM1995]

Nice additions to the family AZ.

That vac excavator trailer is interesting, vacuum excavation is something I have been kicking around as an additional business. Looking forward to see how it works out for you.

 

[AzIron]

Nice additions to the family AZ.

That vac excavator trailer is interesting, vacuum excavation is something I have been kicking around as an additional business. Looking forward to see how it works out for you.

I will let you know on the vacume I have about 5 customer that are happy to have another option I am not sure if it's a service I want to sell retail or as support for our exacting needs for now until we figure out what we are actually doing instead of being a bunch of kids witha garden hose it's just for us

I cant beat what I got that trailer for but the scary thing was I looked at the job said I will sub the vac work and I was talking to my friend and said I dont want to do vac work the following afternoon we drug it home that happened way to fast

Both machines have a punch list of repairs the vac has just been simple stuff and cleaning up the 314 could have went straight to a job but there was a couple of things that needed addressed so I dont worry about them mainly in the cab the ac has a bad hose and since it was 110 here today that's getting fixed also have to put my 1/2 yard wain Roy coupler on it

But I never realized how much of a pain the 314 is to wrench on I need to take a class on being a contortionist just work on it

 

[AzIron]

Put the 314 thru its paces this week really happy with it so far tried it out on an elevator pit and then today we demoed asphalt for a rail spur next week we cut the grade for the spur

314 does have a problem tho something with the pump is causing it to load up and pull down the engine but it will get the oil hot pretty fast if you spur it pretty hard we think its something with the controller I think it comes down to this machine has set to much at 15 years old and 5000 hours it has not run steady ever but i think it's been parked most of the last year or 2

 

[AzIron]

It happened again another cave in made the local news last night 2 men lost there lives due to severe negligence

At a housing tract on the west side of town 2 guys from the underground company were sent to add a sewer tap that was missed when the subdivision was developed a few months ago this is at least the 7th one that was missed I have come to learn

The plumbing company dug an 8 by 8 by 10 foot deep hole per there contract to find the sewer tap that was not there so they turned the job over to the builder who brought the underground guys back to fix there work so they went looking for the tap under the sidewalk by mid morning they had tunneled at least 6 to 9 feet I was told under the sidewalk and street about 8 foot deep when the ditch collapsed traping both men

No shoring of any kind no benching no nothing and 2 men paid for it I guess it irritates me because we have to fight with builders who tell me we dont need shoring and then outfits do this kinda stuff and get away with it till they dont and it gives us excavation contractors a bad name

 

[AzIron]

After demoing asphalt we dug sub grade for a rail spur at the local tank farm I love jobs like this had trucks going as fast as we could load them almost a 100 yards an hour with the 314 I was pretty impressed

Also broke out the vac to do some locating on the same job but for a pipeline we have been doing the dirt work for have a crew working nights doing a street crossing 16 foot deep

 

[AzIron]

Small conduit job nothing crazy just all rock and grade is is way low had to slurry up the transformer pad 2 feet to make finished grade witch is a real pain but a friend had some timber strand forms and it saved the day otherwise another day and some dollars

 

[Tags]

What's all that peaky clean material you're placing over those conduits??? Around here whenever I have to uncover conduits, or any other service line for that matter,they seem to be covered with fill full of rocks the size of bowling balls and the making tape is directly on top of the pipe.....incredibly helpful....

 

[AzIron]

I hardly ever find marking tape but if its bigger than 3 inch minus material we screen it shade pipe no questions I have only ever had to repair a conduit once

 

[crane operator]

No shoring of any kind no benching no nothing and 2 men paid for it I guess it irritates me because we have to fight with builders who tell me we dont need shoring and then outfits do this kinda stuff and get away with it till they dont and it gives us excavation contractors a bad name

That's so sad to hear. I don't care what we get done in a day, as long as we all get to go home at the end of the day.

 

[CM1995]

Looking good AZ.

I've done a few transformer pads over the years. Looks to be the same spec as here - 2 primary conduits, 1 prime and one spare and a single secondary to the building.

Question - Is the grade getting filled over those conduits or are they that shallow? Primary here has to be 42" to top of pipe from finished grade. I think secondary is 36". Side note on stupid regulations here in AL. We can run primary conduits and pull boxes for miles but you have to be a licensed electrician to run the secondary to the building. We can stub the secondary out of the transformer pad but thats it.

How is the vac trailer working out? What's the learning curve?

 

[CM1995]

It happened again another cave in made the local news last night 2 men lost there lives due to severe negligence

At a housing tract on the west side of town 2 guys from the underground company were sent to add a sewer tap that was missed when the subdivision was developed a few months ago this is at least the 7th one that was missed I have come to learn

The plumbing company dug an 8 by 8 by 10 foot deep hole per there contract to find the sewer tap that was not there so they turned the job over to the builder who brought the underground guys back to fix there work so they went looking for the tap under the sidewalk by mid morning they had tunneled at least 6 to 9 feet I was told under the sidewalk and street about 8 foot deep when the ditch collapsed traping both men

No shoring of any kind no benching no nothing and 2 men paid for it I guess it irritates me because we have to fight with builders who tell me we dont need shoring and then outfits do this kinda stuff and get away with it till they dont and it gives us excavation contractors a bad name

This happened last year here. We were working on a Duluth Trading Co store less than a mile away.

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/...JnQ0L5dMGu3QRdblcgdT7xJLKaql5lUZ3FCnNdR2Y7cIg

Landscaper took on a collapsed storm drain project they had no business dealing with. 8' deep in saturated, heavy clay with no sloping, benching or shoring. The rumor is the "contractor" didn't want to cut and remove more of the driveway because they didn't have it in their bid. Two men lost their lives over incompetence and money. Inexcusable.

 

[AzIron]

Looking good AZ.

I've done a few transformer pads over the years. Looks to be the same spec as here - 2 primary conduits, 1 prime and one spare and a single secondary to the building.

Question - Is the grade getting filled over those conduits or are they that shallow? Primary here has to be 42" to top of pipe from finished grade. I think secondary is 36". Side note on stupid regulations here in AL. We can run primary conduits and pull boxes for miles but you have to be a licensed electrician to run the secondary to the building. We can stub the secondary out of the transformer pad but thats it.

How is the vac trailer working out? What's the learning curve?

There not that shallow the picture you see is actually phone conduit that are shallow on needs 18 inches they are sitting on solid rock a storm drain and water line but grade is about a foot higher

The primary is only 1 pipe on this job the secondary is 2 we can run all the conduit we want but cant do anything with gear or wire I sub to the electrician so we did all the site light runs thru the parking lot


The vac trailer has been a steeper learning curve than I would have guessed but the principal is really simple

In reality I have learned a lot watching badger on this crossing every night our little trailer is good for pot holes and helping the mini or backhoe dig around pipe otherwise we call for a vac truck tank capacity is not what makes your production water volume and pressure is what makes quick work or painfully slow work

 

[CM1995]

Badger has it down.

Power Co was replacing the power poles on our road and Badger was performing all the pole excavations. Wife and I stood out in the driveway and watched the entire process after first letting the guys know we weren't the typical homeowners, in the construction business and interested in the concept. My wife has seriously wanted to get into the vac truck business since that day.