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Butler Brothers logging trucks

Alabama logger

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Joined
Oct 21, 2011
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1
Location
North Alabama
Occupation
Traveling Service Tech for Sunshine Homes
Hello all... I'm new to the forum,but it looks really interesting on here! I build lots of 1/87 scale logging models and I'm interested in the trucks pictured above.I can't really see how the articulation joint worked on these trucks. Does anyone have a drawing,or can they explain how it worked? I really want to build a working model,but it's unclear from the photos how it functioned....Any help would be greatly appreciated...Dennis Raper-Alabama
 

Spirit

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Joined
Apr 14, 2012
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4
Location
Saanich
The trucks that Basil built.

Hello gentlemen.

I am the husband of Basil Oldfield's niece and the keeper of all historical family things. I care for the www.spiritoftomorrow website and it was nice to see it posted on your forum.

Some of the pictures that Peter has posted has come from our family archives.

I have two requests.

1- Could I get permission from those who have posted pictures here to add them to my website?

2- Where in the heck is #36 located? I would give my left plumb to see this piece of equipment before I pass. :)

Thanks to you all for the great interest that you have.
 

HDX

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,064
Location
East Of Sarita
Its good to see this thread reactivated There is NO REASON why she cant be saved This old girl did what she was built for and that was to HAUL LOGS I have not been over to see her for some years but she still sits waiting. I have see worse trucks brought back (Vic Laughlins Baldwin Hayes) was every bit as tough shape and look what he did to her and another was Omer Pelletiers old JS Brock truck Man Built her Man left her to the elements so why cant MAN RESTORE HER I am not saying she has to run again but why not fix her up as a "GATE GUARD" Give it some thought before its too late!!!
 

Spirit

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Joined
Apr 14, 2012
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Location
Saanich
Thanks to 69hayes for the super speedy permission to use the pictures on my web page. I will have them up as soon as I can. :)
 

jamesn

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Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
29
Location
texas
Occupation
forestry mulching
man what a awesome truck, how old is that truck, what was the h/p?
 

kw60

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Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
7
Location
graysharbor city
I find this thread very interesting. I'm sure with there goal to haul these kind of loads they must have also been in the logging business if so what's there story.
 

Spirit

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Apr 14, 2012
Messages
4
Location
Saanich
kw60

Butler Brothers were in the logging industry, as well as the concrete and gravel industry (which they still operate to this day)

For a while (in the late 50's and early 60's) they were also into the retail television sales market.
 

Spirit

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Apr 14, 2012
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Location
Saanich
Just to let you good folks here know, because of today's interaction (and I thank you for that) the traffic at www.spiritoftomorrow.com hit an all time high of triple of a normal day's traffic.

I have had some fantastic emails today from some of this forum's members.

Please let me know if there is any information that I can provide you.

My next addition to the website is to display the 1,600 square foot house that "spins on it's axis" that Basil Oldfield built .....and is still in the family's care.

Please keep the logging truck info coming.
 

wornout wrench

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Feb 17, 2012
Messages
740
Location
canada
I stopped at Menzies Bay on time to have a look at the monster. That would have been in the late 70's.
It was big.
If I remember correctly there were a few reasons why it never made it to production.
I heard that it was hard on drivers, sitting infront of the steer wheels and so low to the ground your visibility was not that good and when you went around a switchback and were hanging right over the edge of the road it was a bit unnerving, and the second reason was the gross weight of the truck and trailer loaded was causing issues with the roads and bridges. Not sure if this was true, they have hauled double loads before, just not sure if as big as what this monster could carry.
Too bad my father passed away, he could have filled in a few blanks here
 

Truckmodeler

Active Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Victoria BC
Its good to see this thread active again.

Here is a bit of a summary of the info I've gathered on these trucks. Some of it is unfortunately a bit of guesswork and assumption but i think most of it is fairly correct.

There were, to the best of my knowledge, 4 trucks built. They were the following:
1/ the first #70, build date approx. 1960. Mack standard axle running gear, 1400 tires, DD 12v71 engine, all 4 axles powered, articulated in the center with a large transfer box supplying power to the front and rear bogies. This one was built by Basil (Barney) Oldfield in his shop on West Saanich road. The shop is still there, looking much the same as it did over 50 years ago. The final disposition of this truck is currently unknown. It did not, again to my knowledge, tow a pup and was smaller than the other 3 trucks to follow.
2/ the #36, build date approx. 1964. Drivetrain consisted of planetary axles, 1600 tires, probably DD 16v71 (I've heard it may have been a 12v71 as well), all axles powered, articulated in the center much like the first truck. This truck was built, again a bit of guesswork here, by Basil Oldfield and Butler Brothers in a hanger at the Victoria Airport. On Spirit's Website you can see the truck outside a large building with FAIREY AVIATION written on the side. This was most likely the roll-out photo-shoot.
This truck was probably the longest surviving one, well into the '70's. It towed a pup trailer later in its life. In the mid-70's it received a front end and cab almost identical to the later Mark 5, which changed the look of it a great deal. It was with that cab that it ended its days. It was sold by Butlers and after working on the island for a short time it ended up on the mainland coast. It is pretty much down to the cab and some of the bunk structure and turntables for the axles being all that is left. Reportedly, the axles went under some re-built Kenworths.
3/ The second #70, build date approx. 1967-8. This truck was similar in appearance to the #36 and was also reportedly built in the hangar at the airport by Oldfield and Butlers. Although similar to the 36 it had straight axles and some different details around the cab protector and cab area. Like its "sister" it towed a pup and was worked hard for about 8 years at the Butler operations in Sooke. It was cut up by Butlers at their machine shop in the mid-70's, reportedly with a cracked and twisted frame that was not repairable. It was used as a bit of a study model for the building of the last truck - the Mark 5.
4/ The Mark 5 (also given the number '70'), build date 1974. This was the final and biggest, very different from the other three. Due to changes in regulations and also technological advances in drive components, Butlers built this one with a rigid frame and twin steer front axles. It was built by a team of Butlers people, it was designed from the outset to max out the design. It was built in the old Butler Brothers machine shop - which unfortunately was recently knocked down to make way for a housing development. Story goes that the build team knew some of the local constabulary and when it came time for a test drive they made a phone call and promptly got an escort. Not like today where you'd have to get permission from 30 levels of mindless bureaucracy before you could apply for a permit to apply for an escort! Specs were: DD16V71TI engine (750 hp), Dart front axles, Allison trans, Clark BD121000 rear axles, 1800 tires on the front, 1600 on the rears (the difference in tire size was due to the load rating required). It was designed from the outset to haul over 100 tons and tow a trailer loaded with 100 tons as well. The custom designed trailer was built by Columbia Trailer and had 1600 size tires.
The Mark 5 is the one most often referred to as the largest logging truck ever built. It is also the one that many saw in MacBlo colours for awhile in the late 70's. It was built as a pilot project for a new breed of hauling truck with some consideration given to marketing it to the mining industry. Unfortunately, the plans for producing more of them never panned out. It was eventually sold to the same operator that had purchased the #36. It now sits (as seen in the photos on this site) in a boneyard on the mainland coast. The front axles are still there but the rears, the engine and much of the other drivetrain has been long ago parted out.

While all of these trucks share a common shape, they are all quite different from each other. Over the years because of this similar shape, some confusion has developed about what truck went where and which one had this or that. I hope most of the info I've given above is accurate but as I've found in the last couple of years delving into this - there's always another wrinkle to the story.

Thanks to Spirit and others for the loan of photos and info to try to get this story down. I'm still trying to get a more accurate picture of the life of each of these trucks and in time i will update this story.
 

HDX

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Apr 21, 2010
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2,064
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East Of Sarita
Truckmodeler Even though the rear diffs and housings are gone why could somebody not set an old set of chain drive bogies with 1400 X24 tires under her to sit her level again. These were all over the place after all the old M26 Tank retriever converted Madill towers were cut up! At least its a thought After all it only has to hold up the back end Talk nice to me I have a complete set It was just a thought
 

Truckmodeler

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Nov 8, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Victoria BC
Sounds good to me. Just need to get her out of the bush and back home to the island. As you mentioned in an earlier post she is still restorable, excellent restorations have been done with much less to start with. Hopefully she can be acquired and transported. Wonder if any of the guys up your way have gone any further with that.

See you at the 90th!
 

alco

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Apr 7, 2006
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1,289
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here
Thank you so much for all the work you've put into the research of these trucks. And even more so, for sharing it with all of us.

I can remember seeing a picture in a library book years ago of the Mark 5, and being in awe. Now I finally have a bit of an understanding of what the truck really was.
 

Truckmodeler

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Nov 8, 2010
Messages
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Location
Victoria BC
Hi Alco, glad to share the history.

Much like you, I was in awe the first time I saw one of these. I was a kid watching the Victoria Day Parade and this absolute monster truck, something I'd never seen before, came down the street. Its one thing to have seen these in the bush or around other heavy equipment but when its following a marching band of highschoolers down a city street its a whole diferent story. And me being about 11 or 12 at the time made it seem even bigger. Sadly, I didn't have a camera with me nor did my parents but I always remembered that image. Its a very faded image now and I have never been able to figure out which one of the 4 it was (I think it was #36 or the second #70) but its what eventually spurred me to track the history.
 

trakloader

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Jul 1, 2008
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Location
Queen Charlotte Islands
My hat is off to you, Truckmodeler! If not for you bringing all the research together the world might never have known the full story. And hey, restoring that one for display is a great idea! And you could park it beside Meth Martin's truck for a photo, too, lol! I sure would love to see the remains of that one preserved.
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
I'm also impressed. Being a mining man and with now knowledge of the logging industry the Bulter Mk5 looks to the the perfect solution to moving large loads of timber when compared to what are basically beefed up on-highway trucks that appear to be "industry-standard" for logging companies.

Having read the thread from page 1 I'm amazed that nobody has commented on how the low centre of gravity of the Butler design should, theoretically anyway, produce a truck that is far more stable than a conventional truck on logging roads.
 

JDOFMEMI

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Joined
Jan 3, 2007
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3,074
Location
SoCal
I have really enjoyed following this thread.

While browsing the web the other day, I came accross this picture and thought it shared a lot in common with the Butler trucks. Does anyone here know which came first, Butlers trucks, or the Foremost predecessors to what is seen here?
foremostmagnum.jpg
 
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