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Buying a d9h that's been sitting for years
- Thread starter Neily
- Start date
Ill just have to put that down to poor photography. Thanks for the upright. Anyone have an idea how in depth steering brakes are, is this a trans out job or removal of finals and in the side? How is this job approached? Just after a rough idea how much this would take so I can factor it into the price.
walkerv
Senior Member
I just rotated it in windows photo viewer
walkerv
Senior Member
with out a serial number one can't tell you much , going by sales model of a D10 there is 2 serial number prefixes and they both show a D348 engine
walkerv
Senior Member
sorry cant help you there only experience I have on those was helping my old man with a little reassembly and ran the dozer so he could check brake pressures afterwords . My background is 15 years of trucks primarily. I have been all heavy equipment for only a little over a year and I have lots to learn I study the forum most every night
Nige
Senior Member
Depending on actual S/No the tractor could date back as far as late 70s or as new as mid-80's. The original engine was a D348 which is/was a dog. The emissions repower engine would most certainly be a 3508, that's what went into the 11R. Whether the engine conversion on that particular tractor is a factory-approved repower or a home-brewed job is up for discussion.
I assume the installed 3508 engine has a Woodward governor, correct..? That would make sense as the original 84W machine was totally non-electronic. Also it might (and I stress the might) explain the black smoke, because if someone has been buggering around with the governor settings, especially the droop, it could cause all sorts of weird issues. Come to think of it, if the conversion is a home-brew and the 3508 originally came from a generator set the governor settings (and mabe some internal parts in the governor itself) would be completely different. If you can get and engine Serial Number it might help in tracing the engine provenance.
There should be lots of expertise on D10/D11 brakes/steering on HEF. In fact check out this thread it may give you some ideas. You have to remember that the original model tractor like the one you are looking at was badged as a D10, then when Cat changed the models around the D10 morphed into the D11N. So whatever's said about early D11's will apply just the same to this D10.
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?60561-D11-steering-clutch-issues
One last question. If you end up buying the 10 just exactly how do you plan on moving it around..?
I assume the installed 3508 engine has a Woodward governor, correct..? That would make sense as the original 84W machine was totally non-electronic. Also it might (and I stress the might) explain the black smoke, because if someone has been buggering around with the governor settings, especially the droop, it could cause all sorts of weird issues. Come to think of it, if the conversion is a home-brew and the 3508 originally came from a generator set the governor settings (and mabe some internal parts in the governor itself) would be completely different. If you can get and engine Serial Number it might help in tracing the engine provenance.
There should be lots of expertise on D10/D11 brakes/steering on HEF. In fact check out this thread it may give you some ideas. You have to remember that the original model tractor like the one you are looking at was badged as a D10, then when Cat changed the models around the D10 morphed into the D11N. So whatever's said about early D11's will apply just the same to this D10.
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?60561-D11-steering-clutch-issues
One last question. If you end up buying the 10 just exactly how do you plan on moving it around..?
Hi nige. I didn't get to in depth with the governor, wouldn't know what I was looking at anyway. Old mate told me that the engine was out of an 11r but who realy knows at this point. Supposedly an 82 model but I didn't worry about the getting the serial number. Yeah I had read through that post when it first started, worked out that it looks as though it's just break the track and pull the whole final off so that doesn't look to hard at all realy. As far as moving it about its no worries getting it home on a truck, once it's home I can walk it anywhere it will ever need to go. If I do find a few outside Jobs to far to walk it the bloke that brings it home can move it no worries. Not sure if it's an economically viable option at this point just yet.
Nige
Senior Member
If the engine was out of an 11R then it would be either 1st or 2nd generation electronic (ADEM-I or ADEM-II) depending on what particular model it came out of. I'm not sure how an engine like that could communicate with the transmission which in an 11R is electronically-controlled. It doesn't make sense to me. Now if matey boy had said the engine came out of an 11N I could see that it would work because it would be mechanical injection. The fact he's saying it came from another machine model (as opposed to being an official factory repower using a brand-new or Reman engine along with factory-supplied wiring harnesses, etc. to do the conversion) sounds like a potential world of hurt to me.
As I said above if it was a mechanical-injection 3508 that would make sense because it would be instantly compatible with the rest of the mechanical 84W-prefix D10 with no need for electronic communication between the engine, transmission, and monitor system.
No joking, we used to move our 10's & 11's on a lowboy for any distance over 1000 metres in order to save fuel and wear & tear on undercarriage.
I would guess at today's prices a full undercarriage overhaul on the tractor you're looking at would be close to or maybe even in excess of US$100,000 just in parts.
As I said above if it was a mechanical-injection 3508 that would make sense because it would be instantly compatible with the rest of the mechanical 84W-prefix D10 with no need for electronic communication between the engine, transmission, and monitor system.
Do that and you'd better have really deep pockets to pay for all the fuel it's going to burn and the wear on the undercarriage......
No joking, we used to move our 10's & 11's on a lowboy for any distance over 1000 metres in order to save fuel and wear & tear on undercarriage.
I would guess at today's prices a full undercarriage overhaul on the tractor you're looking at would be close to or maybe even in excess of US$100,000 just in parts.
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Hi nige I did notice that the throttle linkage seemed to go into a governor box on the rh front of the engine block? I don't have deep pockets and I can't argue with your experience on that one lol. To be perfectly honest the bloke that owns it is hard to talk to he dosent answer his phone and kinda changes his tune a lot, it's very hard to ask him anything and get answers. It's like he dosent even want to sell it, I've encountered this before and it annoys the **** out of me. Sorry having a rant lol but I should have had a better look at the machine in respect to the engine. Tbh this machine is starting to feel like a trap, I'm no expert on earthmoving gear but my first impression of this machine was that it has been neglected maintanence wise. I'm starting think It might be worth giving it a wide berth considering the price.
Nige
Senior Member
If it had a throttle linkage across the top of the engine it's a mechanical governor engine and it didn't come out of any 11R on this planet.........
Just be aware that the D10/D11 line are expensive machines to operate and maintain. undercarriage is just one part of the equation.
Just be aware that the D10/D11 line are expensive machines to operate and maintain. undercarriage is just one part of the equation.
mht1156
Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2015
- Messages
- 17
- Location
- New South Wales Australia
- Occupation
- Farmer, Truck Driver, Earthmoving
Just on the walking thing, on most farms here in Australia(esp in the pastoral/cropping zones) when a dozer gets "walked" it will generally be doing work on the way like raking along a timber line etc and not just blade up flat out in third.
Whenever we go here there is something for the machine to do enroute to the "job". When raking timber its all day in second and not much reversing in total.
Mike.
Whenever we go here there is something for the machine to do enroute to the "job". When raking timber its all day in second and not much reversing in total.
Mike.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . .
Good one mht1156. That's exactly right.
I can't comprehend bringing in a float to save a thousand meter walk. Nige though has wide experience on operations costs and I have no doubt it pencils out.
I have often wondered why large tractors now seem so disproportionately expensive to operate despite their larger size.
I used to always try to negotiate pulling a strip at half rates or whatever to help cover costs.
Walking empty was often unavoidable though and I have walked D9g's one hundred and fifty miles in three long days dragging eight hundred feet of two and a half inch chain.
As you say, raking and pulling tractors saw little reverse and in dusty conditions we often walked them backwards as it was easier to see phone lines strung from tree to tree.
Back then, in the in the late sixties, the rate on D9g's was fifty bucks an hour each and the chain thrown in for free.
Cheers.
Good one mht1156. That's exactly right.
I can't comprehend bringing in a float to save a thousand meter walk. Nige though has wide experience on operations costs and I have no doubt it pencils out.
I have often wondered why large tractors now seem so disproportionately expensive to operate despite their larger size.
I used to always try to negotiate pulling a strip at half rates or whatever to help cover costs.
Walking empty was often unavoidable though and I have walked D9g's one hundred and fifty miles in three long days dragging eight hundred feet of two and a half inch chain.
As you say, raking and pulling tractors saw little reverse and in dusty conditions we often walked them backwards as it was easier to see phone lines strung from tree to tree.
Back then, in the in the late sixties, the rate on D9g's was fifty bucks an hour each and the chain thrown in for free.
Cheers.
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Nige
Senior Member
Yes, a totally different form of operation. Basically I was looking at dead-heading from one work site to another. Also we used to blank 3rd gear off on all our tractors to stop the boys getting too over-enthusiastic with them because we could never rely on the operations supervisors to keep their operators totally under control. Easy to do on electronic transmissions.
We didn't have to bring a float in Scruib, we had one on site 24 x 7 with a permanent crew whose sole function in life was to move equipment from one place to another, drills, dozers, etc. Basically anything on steel tracks. If they made one move or ten in a shift they were paid the same. The 1000m number was again something we plucked out of the air because the operations people always had the tendency to wing it when it came to doing their work. It was like "Oi Fred, take your 10 and just pop over there and clear that area up, then when you're done move to so-and-so and do such & such, then etc, etc....". You could easily have dozers working for different supervisors criss-crossing the job, even passing each other in opposite directions at times when dead-heading. You get my drift..? Having a relatively restrictive limit on how far they could move under their own power made the Ops boys actually think about what work they had to do and come up with a plan on how best to organize their assets in order to do it.
Queenslander
Senior Member
Tell us a bit about your gravel pit Neily.
Unless it is hard rock or you are selling huge amounts, you may be just as well off with something a little smaller.
Spend a week on a 7 or 8 and you should have an impressive pile of road gravel.
Unless it is hard rock or you are selling huge amounts, you may be just as well off with something a little smaller.
Spend a week on a 7 or 8 and you should have an impressive pile of road gravel.
Scrub Puller
Senior Member
Yair . . . .
Gotcha Nige Excellent explanation and it puts it more into perspective . . . that's a nice line up that last picture. (Big Grin)
Cheers.
Gotcha Nige Excellent explanation and it puts it more into perspective . . . that's a nice line up that last picture. (Big Grin)
Cheers.
I'll second that scrub, very nice line up! I wonder if they would notice if one went missing 
Hi queenslander, it's kinda a long story. Bare with me lol. I brought the neighbouring farm off my cousin which has a hill with an old pit, say 20-30 years ago all the easy stuff on the top was removed. Once it got to hard going ( hd21 ) they moved through the fence into the neighbours ( boundary fence basically runs over the top of the hill ) and started again and this has been the local pit ever since. My mate owns the pit through the fence and has done for about 10 years, he isn't overly excited about selling gravel which has me beat? $$$ I think. Anyway when the shire used to use it they mainly blasted it and than had it crushed. Now where my problems start are.
1 there is also a road over the hill and just the other side of the road another mate of mine has just built a lovely new brick home ( about 350m away) , so without a bit more research I think I'm gonna be out of luck on the blasting front.
2 the rock isn't what I'd consider hard, probably fairly soft I think as rock goes. That lead me to thinking a big machine might do a pretty good job of smashing it up while ripping and pushing ( track rolling I guess ).
3 big tractors don't seem to bring half the asking price of smaller ones around here.
4 I have an old hd9 that would do the job if it was blasted, might take a while but
5 for some reason I'd rather buy my own machine and do it instead of paying someone else but this might not be viable. There is potential to sell a fair bit if I can dig it up, So I'm realy unsure at this point what to do.
I asked my mate about it he said walk the old allis up there and see what happens, he suggested that would give me a good indication what will happen. Ie if it can rip it and it pulls out chunks that won't break up that chances are that a big dozer is only going to do the same on a bigger scale, and looking in the neighbouring pit this is probably true. I'm unsure about that but he works for an earthmoving company so he should have some idea. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'll take some Pictures of both pits and the rock and mabe you and others mabe able to give some advice, thanks neil
Hi queenslander, it's kinda a long story. Bare with me lol. I brought the neighbouring farm off my cousin which has a hill with an old pit, say 20-30 years ago all the easy stuff on the top was removed. Once it got to hard going ( hd21 ) they moved through the fence into the neighbours ( boundary fence basically runs over the top of the hill ) and started again and this has been the local pit ever since. My mate owns the pit through the fence and has done for about 10 years, he isn't overly excited about selling gravel which has me beat? $$$ I think. Anyway when the shire used to use it they mainly blasted it and than had it crushed. Now where my problems start are.
1 there is also a road over the hill and just the other side of the road another mate of mine has just built a lovely new brick home ( about 350m away) , so without a bit more research I think I'm gonna be out of luck on the blasting front.
2 the rock isn't what I'd consider hard, probably fairly soft I think as rock goes. That lead me to thinking a big machine might do a pretty good job of smashing it up while ripping and pushing ( track rolling I guess ).
3 big tractors don't seem to bring half the asking price of smaller ones around here.
4 I have an old hd9 that would do the job if it was blasted, might take a while but
5 for some reason I'd rather buy my own machine and do it instead of paying someone else but this might not be viable. There is potential to sell a fair bit if I can dig it up, So I'm realy unsure at this point what to do.
I asked my mate about it he said walk the old allis up there and see what happens, he suggested that would give me a good indication what will happen. Ie if it can rip it and it pulls out chunks that won't break up that chances are that a big dozer is only going to do the same on a bigger scale, and looking in the neighbouring pit this is probably true. I'm unsure about that but he works for an earthmoving company so he should have some idea. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'll take some Pictures of both pits and the rock and mabe you and others mabe able to give some advice, thanks neil