D5H 1DD , trans problems

[Nige]

Anyone with a squematic regarding the trans case outlets? I'm really anoyed with this piping.

Sounds like it's about time you got yourself a Parts Manual - SEBP1915.

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Come to think of it, why not go for the full set and get a Service Manual SENR3250 as well.?

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[JAJ]

You can also register for a free Caterpillar account at “parts.cat.com” (just google it). You then can access the free version of “Cat SiS 2.0” (Service information System). This will give you access to a digital version of the parts manuals and they have also now added a heap of other stuff like the operators manuals and some schematics on the free version. You can pay Caterpillar a subscription to have full access to workshop manuals ect. like some people here have access to, but it is rather expensive. I haven’t renewed the paid version at the moment.

If you like technology Cat also has a phone app now that with the account will let you download all the SiS info you have access to for each serial number and have access to it even while offline on a phone or tablet.
I find this extremely useful as we don’t have any mobile phone networks where we work most of the time and the moment I have a problem I can check the info and start troubleshooting instantly for any machine in my fleet.

If you don’t mind digital formats (physical manuals sure have their benefits) it might be a help to you until you can get hold of manuals like Nige linked to.

 

[Mquinista]

JAJ. Thanks for the tip.
I guess i didn't expect the fluid to be so hot after being "strirred" by the TC. Got to fix the temp gauge.
About the pressures? U have any coment?

 

[Nige]

About the pressures? U have any coment?

Unfortunately I have no idea from your description of "upper left port" which test port you are talking about.

Go back to Post #13 on Page 1. Attached to that Post is an Adobe pdf document with the complete Test & Adjust procedures for the Power Train.

Please read through that then indicate using the nomenclature in that document exactly at which test point you are measuring pressure. Refer to the procedure whether you are supposed to test pressure at that point with oil cold or hot, at Low Idle or High Idle, transmission in neutral or in a gear, etc etc. The conditions/requirements for testing are there for a reason but you seem to be just blindly ignoring them and doing what you see fit.

Psi vs Bar. You are on a forum where most members use English units. If you want help did it not occur to you that posting test results in a system that most of the forum members understand might produce better results.? Just in case you are still confused..........

Here, Let Me Google That For You

Passive-aggressively teach your friends how to Google. For all those people who find it more convenient to ask you rather than search it themselves. Not associated with Google.

googlethatforyou.com

 

[Mquinista]

Its P1 pressure...
The units discussion lead us nowhere ... english / metric... whatever it could even be russian system.
But i'll find it intersting CAT publishes in metric system first. Kpa / Mpa / BAR its related.

When they talk about the "load piston plug removed" mean i have to open the rear and remove it from the valve body? Just remove it?
OR is something else. Pls explain... is not making sense to me.

 

[joe--h]

You remind me of my ex wife.

Joe H

 

[JAJ]

You remind me of my ex wife.

Joe H

Now now... ex wives are people too!!

 

[JAJ]

Its P1 pressure...
The units discussion lead us nowhere ... english / metric... whatever it could even be russian system.
But i'll find it intersting CAT publishes in metric system first. Kpa / Mpa / BAR its related.

When they talk about the "load piston plug removed" mean i have to open the rear and remove it from the valve body? Just remove it?
OR is something else. Pls explain... is not making sense to me.

On a more serious note...
Thank you for being clearer about the pressure port you measured at. I am not familar with working on D5H dozers at all and looking at the parts diagrams for the transmission lines, it is set up very different to my D6H. Working from the test procedure that Nige uploaded so we can understand where you are up to and what you are checking is vital.
I for one, will be no help if I cant follow the test procedure with you.... not that I probably have as much to offer as some of the others any way.

Referring to the spec chart, that pressure you measured at full throttle is low. The pressure you measured at low idle, was that in gear or neutral?
If it was in gear... it is very low.
This could point to leakage somewhere internally or a worn out pump. More data/info needed!!!
You will need to measure all the pressures listed in the spec chart or as many as you can for a start. This should point to the cause and tell us what is going on. It could be something simple and easy to fix but we need all the data/info you can give us to work it out.

RE: The "load plug". I don't know, it confused me when I tested my dozer so I just tested the machine as it was. Hoping the more experienced guys can shed some light on it and I can learn something as well??

Some simple stuff, but just want to check.....
1: Have you have checked the trans oil level with it at operating temp while running (assume this is is correct procedure for this machine???) ?
2: Have you checked the breather for the transmission?
3: Someone already suggested... but have you checked the suction line to the trans pump for damage or leaks?
My thinking is sucking air or cavitation. Both will kill pumps very quickly. All these things are easy to do if you haven't done them already. I assumed they had been checked but thought it worth asking.

 

[nicky 68a]

Good post JAD.
Your point on getting the correct procedure testing is very valid .
It would be very prudent for the OP to listen carefully to whatever TC Tractors and Nige say on this matter.They’ve both been helping me on an issue that’s had us nearly beat,but old fashioned experience with these two chaps has won the day

 

[Mquinista]

Gents
Finally was able to test much of the TXM ...
Some things i did not cause was unable due to lack of hardware.
The TXM filter housing has a port stating" Pump Press" this should be related to main pump? Or is the pre -pump press?
Apreciate the coments

 

[Mark250]

Good post JAD.
Your point on getting the correct procedure testing is very valid .
It would be very prudent for the OP to listen carefully to whatever TC Tractors and Nige say on this matter.They’ve both been helping me on an issue that’s had us nearly beat,but old fashioned experience with these two chaps has won the day

tell the story please Nicky always interested

 

[JAJ]

Gents
Finally was able to test much of the TXM ...
Some things i did not cause was unable due to lack of hardware.
The TXM filter housing has a port stating" Pump Press" this should be related to main pump? Or is the pre -pump press?
Apreciate the coments

Great stuff, well done on the data collection!! I’ll have to have an analysis of the data properly but at first glance it looks like you have some leakage on the first gear speed circuit and all are a bit low if I remember the spec sheet. Have to check it before I comment.

The TXM filter port you are talking about… on my dozer this was pump pressure and was a bit higher spec than the P1.

With all the data, the more experienced guys will most likely have a lot more to offer than I do, have to wait and see.

 

[nicky 68a]

tell the story please Nicky always interested

Hi Mark.I would like to explain things,but it’s all way above my brain capacity I’m afraid.Suffice to say,an older D9R is now fighting fit with the help of these two chaps.

 

[Mquinista]

Hey guys ...
Any coments?
BTW , found out where the custum hoses are coming from... its conected on the upper right part of TC , goes to the front of tractor (where a rad was i think)and back to TXM case
I suspect is cnected to TC case scavenge line... if this is the case something is very wrong in there...
Any of u got TC explanation sheet? Where one can se wich ports are , and what bolts where...
Thanks.

 

[Mquinista]

What is the port circled in the picture?
thanks

 

[JAJ]

It is a bit confusing when looking at that diagram and the diagram of the hoses and lines…. I would expect that the scavenger port would be at the bottom of the case (it is on my d6h anyway). It looks to me like it could be the inlet port?? Have you worked though the other hoses, process of ellimintation?

I can’t access the workshop manuals at the moment so hopefully Nige might have some wisdom for us?

Have you checked those other easy things I asked about???

 

[Mquinista]

Have you checked those other easy things I asked about???

wIch ones?
Yes it can be the oil inlet , why not! I'm completely lost, i don´t know why it seamed the case scavenge outlet.
where would be the case scavenge port then? a diagram would help a lot...

 

[JAJ]

wIch ones?
Yes it can be the oil inlet , why not! I'm completely lost, i don´t know why it seamed the case scavenge outlet.
where would be the case scavenge port then? a diagram would help a lot...

RE: which ones? A quick scroll back up this page of posts and you will find them!

I would expect that the scavenge port would be somewhere near the bottom, but I could be incorrect. It could even be internal and not have an external port visable? Looking at the parts diagrams I cant tell if the trans pump bolts to the TC case or the transmission housing and run by a drive sharft like my D6H. I have a hose from the port to the pump on mine.
By process of elimination there has to be an IN, OUT (should have the TC outlet relief valve then run to the cooler) and scavenge port of some description as a minimum. I can only see the info you can at the moment and I cant see the machine to be able work it out without manuals. If you cant work it out looking at it in person with the info you have access too, you have the options of getting a workshop manual, or paying someone local to you to come and work it out for you.

I have spent countless hours studying the workshop manuals on my dozer then comparing that to the actual machine trying to learn and understand the systems while troubleshooting my problems (and I absolutly dont claim to be an expert by any measure)... there isn't too many shortcuts to knowledge and understanding unfortunatly and that is why people keep saying if you want to fix it yourself you need manuals.

As a final thought.... if I was to make a slightly educated guess stumbling in the dark.... if the extra piping to the front of the machine isn't original and isn't part of a high ambient temp cooling pack (ie not caterpillar) , then I would guess the dozer had dramas with high trans/TC temps and instead of fixing the cause someone tried to just add extra cooling as a bandage job. I would guess their theory to have been "try to pre-cool it before it went into the TC (should be the hottest component)".

At this stage I dont have much more to add that would help you.

 

[Mquinista]

Some simple stuff, but just want to check.....
1: Have you have checked the trans oil level with it at operating temp while running (assume this is is correct procedure for this machine???) ?
2: Have you checked the breather for the transmission?
3: Someone already suggested... but have you checked the suction line to the trans pump for damage or leaks?
My thinking is sucking air or cavitation. Both will kill pumps very quickly. All these things are easy to do if you haven't done them already. I assumed they had been checked but thought it worth asking.

Were u refering to this ?
Yes i've visually checked. Does not show nothing, except the intake pipe is a litle bent... can see if it colapses when hot.

The hose, definetly was an atempt to cool the oil down. Before i cleaned the rad it used to triguer the trans overheat alarm. I'm going to get a genuine hose.

In this outfit the TC casing has the TMX pump on the right and the Hydraulic pump on the left.
TXM filter assy is conected to TXM case as everithing else. The TC case drain port does not seem to be internal.
As this pump has 3 pumping elements, pre-clean/ lube; working pressure, and TC case scavenge. But when i look to the drawings and in the machine i only see 2 pairs of Inlet/outlet lines. As per the drawings below.

I want to avoid droping a new pump there / or overhaul this one and after all this hassle everithing stay the same...

 

[Mquinista]

Hey gents ...
Strugling to find the priority valve test port, anyone got a picture of it?
It would be much apreciated.