D6C Steering Clutches not completely releasing

[kshansen]

Is it just the camera angle in the first picture or is that disc warped up a bit in the center? I would say if there are any burs in the splines that would cause the discs to hang up a little it would be a good idea to smooth them off. Someone else with more experience with these clutches might know the wear limits on them, but just looking at the pictures they don't look bad but I sure get the spec's and measure each and every one.


Update:

Checked SIS and found this:

4. Check the discs and disc assemblies for wear. If the parts are worn, use new parts for replacement. The thickness of a new set of steering clutch discs and disc assemblies is 2.012 in. (50.10 mm) to 2.222 in. (56.44 mm). The minimum thickness for a used steering clutch unit is 1.800 in. (45.7 mm). mm).

So they don't give wear limits for individual plates and disks but give the total "stack height" which is just as good or better. But I would use a straight edge to check each one for warping as this could trow off the measurement of the stack.

 

[Old Magnet]

Thickness of one new 5M1199 disc assembly is 0.176 to 0.192 in.
Thickness of one new 3S1691 disc is 0.084 to 0.098 in.
Clutch pack is 8 new disc assemblies and 7 new discs.

What I see so far looks pretty good to me.

 

[Metalman 55]

Is it just the camera angle in the first picture or is that disc warped up a bit in the center? I would say if there are any burs in the splines that would cause the discs to hang up a little it would be a good idea to smooth them off. Someone else with more experience with these clutches might know the wear limits on them, but just looking at the pictures they don't look bad but I sure get the spec's and measure each and every one.


Update:

Checked SIS and found this:

4. Check the discs and disc assemblies for wear. If the parts are worn, use new parts for replacement. The thickness of a new set of steering clutch discs and disc assemblies is 2.012 in. (50.10 mm) to 2.222 in. (56.44 mm). The minimum thickness for a used steering clutch unit is 1.800 in. (45.7 mm). mm).

So they don't give wear limits for individual plates and disks but give the total "stack height" which is just as good or better. But I would use a straight edge to check each one for warping as this could trow off the measurement of the stack.

No visible warping that I am aware of.....they did look very flat. We will check the stack height to see how it compares to the specs provided.

 

[tctractors]

The Clutch Discs and Brake Drum look very good to me, measure the Clutch pack thickness for total stack size also checking the spring hight, then swap the clutch and drums to the opposite sides, on the pinion flange lift even with new bearings you will have a small amount of lift on D6 and up tractors, you might find it easier to use the D6D long nose adaptor to pop off the flange from the pinion, I remove the pinion nut then screw on the D6D press up adaptor with a 1/8th or so gap from the flange then press the flange Off as the flange is very dished, there is 2 adaptors for the D6 tractors the short 1 is for the C's the longer 1 is for the D's, I tend to always use the D6D long item as it works a lot better, the flange has to come off on D6 tractors to remove the top pinion.
tctractors

 

[Metalman 55]

Ok......some more measurements to report on here.........Left Side Pinion travel up & down is .024, Left Side Pinion end play is .029. Right Side Pinion travel up & down is .020 & the end play is .050. Those measurements for the up n down movement were taken on the od of the flange hub which would be about 2" or so in from the bearing, which means a bit less slop at the bearing itself. Does that much play sound acceptable?

We have seals leaking oil, presumable from the pinion seals getting into the final drives, overfilling them, so plan on replacing them & see what else we find.

 

[kshansen]

No visible warping that I am aware of.....they did look very flat. We will check the stack height to see how it compares to the specs provided.

OK, probably just the camera lens and angle.

 

[Old Magnet]

I couldn't find any specs but that amount of movement in roller bearings is excessive and would give the seals a real work out to keep up.

 

[Bob/Ont]

Have you checked the bevel gear bearings?
Later Bob

 

[Metalman 55]

Have you checked the bevel gear bearings?
Later Bob

If you are referring to the inner hub/shaft on the opp side of the clutch assemblies, yes we did & they seemed tight, no movement. There is however some play in the rotation of bevel gear shaft. How do we measure what is acceptable there?

 

[Metalman 55]

I couldn't find any specs but that amount of movement in roller bearings is excessive and would give the seals a real work out to keep up.

We will pull the worst side apart & see what we find. Can everything be taken apart from inside the clutch compartment when disassembling, as far as the pinion shaft, bearings & seals are concerned?

 

[Metalman 55]

the right side stacked height is 2.011"
disc assembly .174"
.178"
.175"
steel disc .091"
.087"
.084"

the left side stacked height is 2.087"
disc assembly .174"
.172"
.172"
steel discs .087"
.091"
.085"

Measurements for the stacked & random individual measurement's on disc assemblies & steel discs as well.

 

[tctractors]

The end float on the top pinions is not a problem it is a good thing allowing the bearings an amount of running comfort, the lift that you measure is going to be checked when you pop out the top pinion's to replace the seals so its not worth worrying about but even with new bearings fitted slight lift is often to be found, when the new seals are fitted it will make the lateral movement hard to measure, by the look of your clutch plate tips things are running fairly well, the cross shaft bearings will be hard to check for lift with any lateral movement that is easier to spot not a good thing, even with no movement on the cross shaft I have found the bearings starting to fail, the cross shaft needs a good amount of care to set up correctly so if this is a new thing for you to tackle understand the method and technical issues needed within this area, read the service book making a script of all the torque loadings, Lash setting and ton pressing data, I can knock them out easy often with only 2 shim adjustments to get the correct lash but the bearing pre-load can be a game with 4 or 5 shim changes to get things good.
tctractors

 

[Bob/Ont]

If you keep the shims as they were 1 to 2 is about all you need to move I have found. Bearings are built to very close tolerances. A good rule of thumb is to have the bearings set so it takes only a good grip of the tapered spline of the bevel gear shaft with your hand to turn it, that will be 60"lb. Then install the gear and check the backlash. Remember the pinion is floating and must be pushed towards the trans and locked with a bolt to check backlash, check in 4 spots.
Later Bob

 

[Bob/Ont]

Check the bearing behind the bevel gear, it caries the heavy load.
Later Bob

 

[Old Magnet]

We will pull the worst side apart & see what we find. Can everything be taken apart from inside the clutch compartment when disassembling, as far as the pinion shaft, bearings & seals are concerned?

You can remove the inner bearing and cage, seals (duo-cone) and pinion from the steering clutch side but the outer bearing and race is only accessible with the final drive case/cover removed.

 

[tctractors]

With the pinion removed only the outer bearing that is fitted into the cover of the final drive cannot be changed, both races on the pinion can be swapped out along with the duo-cone seals, if I have oil transfer from the main case to the F/Drive I check for other ways this might be happening, so with the top pinion removed and the back end oil drained, I pour central heating oil through the pinion hole into the F/Drive flooding the case up to the lower bolt holes of the pinion housing, any cracks are easy to spot plus leaks from the intermediate gear housing that is often the cause of oil migrating, after testing the 1 side I pump the leak test fluid from the 1 side to the other side to see what might be leaking, on the cross-shaft work I try to use a new shim kit as often the old shims are damaged, the bearing pre load is best set with the correct torque gauge the spec' is in the Book as Bob said its Inch Lbs,I have a torque wrench with a clock face to read off this detail, you need to keep the bevel gear turning min 3 rotations to set the rollers in the correct running position before these checks. tctractors

 

[Metalman 55]

Ok.....more to report on here.....

First the back lash on the bevel gear is at .022 with the pinion gear fixed tight, no end play on the bevel gear shaft. I noticed it was recommended to check in 4 spots though & we only did one......

Left side pinion (the worst one) is out & bearings seem good, however looks like some past damage has marked up some of the teeth on the pinion. I took two pictures of the worst teeth. Some of the teeth have no marks on them.

The gear on the dead shaft has some bits n pieces out of it from past damage too. Prying on the dead shaft gear gives a bit of movement, but not excessive.

Ducone seals will be changed out on both pinion shafts.

With this visible damage to the pinion & the intermediate gears, is this something we should be overly concerned about, based on the fact that we only intend to use this machine about 4oo hours or so in the next 6 years?

 

[Metalman 55]

Went ahead & checked the backlash on the bevel gear in 3 more places & it ranges from .022-.023. If there is no end play & with the backlash is in that range, how necessary is the preload check?

BTW everything looks clean in the bottom of the 3 compartments...no chunks or pieces anywhere to be found.

Pulled the RH pinion out & bearings & the gear look good, much better than the LH side with no marks on any of the teeth. Only seals to change out here.

 

[Old Magnet]

There should be no end movement of the bevel gear shaft. From zero movement there should be 0.005" preload applied to the bearings. The bevel gear back lash spec is 0.015" +/- 0.004" so your a little beyond recommended.
Rest of it looks good.

 

[tctractors]

The checking of the Bevel gear lash in 4 spots around the hub is to check for a bent cross shaft as this is a common drama, don't be scared to pour heating oil in through those big holes the pinion lives in, as this might show you how the oil transfer is happening, blame is often placed on the top pinion seals??? I often find this to not be the cause.
tctractors