Good mid morning Taylortractornu I just turned 70 in December, I go back 1954, when I ran a 2UD8 for my dad he ran a sand pit for Sully-Miller, my dad joined Local 12 union on a dare in 1942. He was the first union employee for Sully-Miller, his dad was fearous, but Sully-Miller started hireing union labors, teamsters, and operating engineers, so you now how far back my side of the family was Union. In 1962 I joined Local 12. I was a union labor for three years 1959. I worked running D8s, DW21s, DW20s every thing was cable equiptment back then. The old timers in 1962, use to complain about the 600 series scrapers, dozers that Caterpillar was coming out with in 1962, It will never work, that's what they bitched about all the time, going over a steep edge, hydrollics will only let you lower your scraper so much, where cable you can lower the scraper that much more (oops the cable came out of the unit and then you would sit there until the Mechanic would show up and eat another big chunk out of your !#%.) They said it would never work. I being 21 back then I believed them, but now I know the old timers were wrong, I love Hydrolics whether on the scrapers, or dozers the contractors your talking about with your dad it had to be a bad time for him. Back then cable was modern stuff, pull rippers cable, dozers cable, scrapers cable, and even loaders cable. I put 45 years in the union in california and I ran everything, plus I owned 22 of my own rigs, so I'm happy that they got rig of cable and they came out with Hydrollics. Mike Nebergall I was not trying to be critticle, just giving Me as an old timers opennion now.